‘Why should you die for a transfer?’
by Willie Ratcliff
When police stopped a teenager stepping off the T-train yesterday to show his transfer as proof he’d paid his fare – $2 at most – he ran from them. They shot him as many as 10 times in the back and neck, according to witnesses. For many long minutes, as a crowd watched in horror, the boy, who had fallen to the sidewalk a block away, lay in a quickly growing pool of blood writhing in pain and trying to lift himself up as the cops trained their guns on him and threatened bystanders.
Having killed the boy at 4:44 p.m., according to the San Francisco Chronicle, in broad daylight at the main intersection – Third Street between Palou and Oakdale – in Bayview Hunters Point, San Francisco’s last largely Black neighborhood, the police seemed eager to terrorize the community. They waited and waited and waited as the teenager stopped moving but continued breathing before eventually setting him on a gurney and taking him to the hospital, where the Chronicle reports he died at 7:01 p.m.
“Why should you die for a transfer?” asked a witness known as Tiptoe in the crowd of hundreds of residents that soon gathered in the plaza at the Oakdale/Palou light rail stop. “Justice will be brought!” hollered one man repeatedly in a booming voice as the crowd shouted at the long line of police in riot gear standing between them and the dying youngster. “I saw the riot squad fly by me on Palou yesterday – five trucks in all,” wrote Bayview resident Sherry Bryson on Facebook.
As usual following police murders, the San Francisco Police Department came up with an excuse. The Chronicle relayed it: “As the officers tried to detain the man, he took off running and drew a gun, police said,” according to staff writer Joe Garofoli. “When the suspect shot at the officers, they returned fire, fatally wounding him,” he continued, quoting SFPD Sgt. Michael Andraychak.
None of the many witnesses I spoke with yesterday saw the young victim either holding or shooting a gun and firmly believe he was unarmed. ABC7’s Carolyn Tyler balanced the police claim that they shot the youngster in self-defense by interviewing Trivon Dixon, who said: “He was running. How could he be a threat in retreat? And he wasn’t running backwards, turning around shooting. He was in full throttle, running away from the police. I don’t see in any way how he could be a threat to the police.”
On Sunday, KTVU.com reported an announcement by San Francisco Police Chief Greg Suhr that a gun had been found which he said belonged to the victim. That police have also kicked off the usual campaign to demonize the victim is evident in KTVU noting that “the suspect had an extensive criminal record out of state.” And in another standard response to a police murder, KTVU reported, “Police patrolled the Third Street corridor Sunday with an additional 10 officers due to an increase in gun violence in the past three weeks.”
“How come a Black man can get shot for not having a transfer? How come a Black man has to be so terrorized that he feels that he has to run for not having a transfer?” ponders activist and graduate student Malaika Kambon. “These kinds of killings have not, would not, do not ever happen in white communities anywhere in the world,” she notes in a Facebook discussion.
“This is insane! They are shooting people over transfers?” exclaimed Renaldo Ricketts on Facebook. “Over a transfer – a piece of paper? That is just so wrong!” wrote Sherry Bryson.
On June 29, Bayview- and Mission District-based POWER, heading a coalition of transit and civil right activist groups that recently helped secure 12,000 free passes for low-income youth passengers, staged a demonstration calling for free Muni – free transit passes for all passengers, the San Francisco Examiner reported. The San Francisco Municipal Railway, known as Muni, has followed up major rate increases in recent years with greatly intensified police fare enforcement, imposing heavy fines and even jail time for riders who are unable to prove by showing a paper transfer that they paid their fare.
“Let’s all remember that we are second class citizens to the police. Period,” remarked Robert Pineda.
“As the state has removed any illusion that it exists to serve or protect people, we can see clearly that it exists only to push us into prisons and to shoot us in cold blood. Two single dollars are worth more to them than our lives. The very existence of the police clearly endangers all of us,” concluded an anonymous writer on Indybay.
A comment on YouTube under the video, “SFPD Ruthlessly Shoots and Kills Unarmed 19yr old Man over $2 Bus Fair,” posted above, reflects the common wisdom in the community that this was a public execution with a purpose: “The white man did the same thing during slavery. They would take a Black man and whip him or kill him in front of all the slaves, to make sure the slaves got the picture of who’s in control.”
A press conference and speakout has been called for Monday noon at Third and Oakdale by the Idriss Stelley Foundation, Education Not Incarceration, the San Francisco Bay View newspaper and Poor Magazine. According to Indymedia, a protest will begin at 5 p.m. Tuesday in Dolores Park.
Bay View publisher Willie Ratcliff can be reached at publisher@sfbayview.com or (415) 671-0789.
As long as the holice can punk a crowd of black men and women as they murder one us this will become even more common.
P.S.
Fuck the police
Yo where is that Malvo guy when you need him?!?! I want to see cops pay they are so sick in the head! Get those psychos with guns and badges off our streets!
This just isn't right. Have the police come up with some lame ass rationale as to why it was necessary to execute this young man on the street? Damn if I wouldn't join y'all in ripping up the town after this shit.
This is the same kid however who is wanted for killing a pregnant woman in WA. I don't condone what the police did, however this wasn't an innocent kid either.
Older article but: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/125548788.html
Hate to see anyone killed but someone on the run after doing something like this was not an innocent victim who was killed over a transfer. He thought the police were onto him for MURDER so he fled. Did he have a gun? Hopefully we'll find out or not for sure and this incident is closely examined, but again, he wasn't fleeing because he didn't have a transfer, he was fleeing because he's a wanted murderer. I think it's irresponsible journalism to make it out like he was just a poor innocent black kid gunned down because he couldn't afford a transfer. There's way more to this story.
In lower crime communities, you would not see police evasion, much less over a $2 fare. This kid did not want to be detained for his murder history. Also, not all "white communities" are crime free. They don't coin the phrase white trash for nothing.
I am so sick of this…we all know the Bayview is the last black neighborhood in the city….is this the first stages of ethnic cleansing? The continued gentrification of the Bayview….hell, the got the Fillmore, we know what the Bayview is worth…and we know, to them, we are worth nothing…this can not stand….
Don't come here with with that crap… you should not be detained for fare evasion, you just get a ticket, but with young black men, it may be treated like a felony. The police did not know who he was. SHOT IN THE BACK AND NECK. That is not going to fly.
The bruva was shot acuz he shot first at the po-po. Dat's why he get popped like a little biotch.
Nice false reporting here… This wasn't a "boy", he was a 19-year old convicted parolee wanted in connection with a murder in Seattle who first shot at the cops.
Don't let the truth get in the way of your narrative, though. Al Sharpton would be proud!!!
Some people claim he didn't have a gun, some claim he did. If he's found to have actually had a gun and shot at the police, are you still going to complain that he was just a victim?
He also just got out of jail for a sex offense. This kind of stuff irritates the crap out of me because people are ready to assume that he was a victim automatically and when a TRUE innocent person actually gets profiled and abused by the police people doubt it precisely because of situations like this. Save all the anger for the people who are actually abused and profiled by the police, of whom there are many, not wanted murderers who try to shoot cops.
Don't run from the popo because you don't have a transfer unless it is to another state called Washington than you run with gun and die with one
You can never escape from your own shadow. Looks like that teen’s bad karma finally caught up with him & the cops just accumulated some of their own, which will bite them in the ass one of these days. Shooting someone in the back is pretty damn shameful, especially if the teen wasn’t really armed at all. Aren’t there painless/minimally harmful tranquilizers that cops can use instead of bullets??
I guess "dick" believe anything the authorities and people who are in power say. There was no gun recovered at the scene of the crime and it was only discovered after the shooting this person was wanted for QUESTIONING in the death of someone in Washington. No proof or conviction was made, they're simply trying to drag his reputation through the mud to justify the departments action. And since when did being a parole justify murder?
All of the witnesses have conflicting stories to that of the police department. Knowing we live in a police state, how the hell are you going to take their word over those who watched this maddening event take place?
he had a gun, you morons, and shot at the police. police have shown racial profiling but this isnt the case. its just the media blowing this out of proportions and people ready to bitch about anything
Regardless of there being a gun "maybe" involved or not, any human being who has been shot and is now lying in a pool of his own blood and unable to stand, is quite obviously, and should no longer be considered a "threat."
Last I checked, the police are not legal enforcers of corporal nor capitol punishment. The issue of this person's innocence or guilt is irrelevant because this incident has resulted in a blatant murder which was committed by those who are entrusted to be civil servants, and who are *not* given the authority to act as the gestapo.
Man… Seems like there's shootings every couple weeks in this neighborhood.
Pretty sure it will eventually turn out proven that this kid did in fact shoot at the police and was involved in the shooting up in S. Seattle. Even still…Kind of hard to be pointing at the police for shooting first and asking questions later in this 'hood.
Some of y'all black folk need to stop blaming everybody else and start looking in the mirror as to why you have this shit happening in your community so much.
Patriot Act, Bush Administration….it really doesn't matter.
We have put the kids that got beat up in high school and the ones that didn't have the brains to come up with a better career than jumping in front of bullets for $60K a year in charge of our safety.
These guys got treated like crap and now they are taking it out on us. Power trips. Lack of training. Lack of brain cells. Lack of vertical growth in their nether-regions.
I will support the movement to remove "BART" police from their duties. This is far to far out of hand and since several have died already it time to handle it now. Not after the 6th and 7th death.
By the way…what happened to the officer dropping the "F-Bomb"? IMO, thats a no-no enough to have that entire force pulled off of operation and re-evaluate our need for "rent a cops" with guns.
Call your mayors office directly. Starting at 9am tomorrow.
The pro-shooting comments here are shocking. This is the America we live in today… A place where statist apologists appear of their own volition to vilify the VICTIM of a brutal crime, ‘cuz the police NEVER make mistakes!
How Do You know ???when there's no detailed description in this article
that matches the description in article of the news link on your post
The article Komonews just says an armed black man 6'1 stocky build
here in this article the description just says teenager with "out of town" priors????
"Some people claim he didn't have a gun, some claim he did"–yes, the people who shot him claim he had a gun; everyone else who saw the incident clearly says he didn't. It's not really clear why you would believe the perpetrators instead of the witnesses.
All of you going on and on about racial this and that are complete morons. If you run from the police, regardless of the situation, you deserve what you get. How many tail light violations result in finding much more severe criminals for crimes not necessarily apparent when pulled over?
Same can be said for anyone stopped on the street. What happens on the highway if you hit the gas when the cops are trying to pull you over? Guess what, they will get you to stop no matter what (up to and including killing you) so running on the street should be no different.
If anything, cops need more rights out there. Look at the scum sitting in our jails that do nothing but repeatedly offend for the same crimes again and again. These people deserve a bullet as well, we can't afford to have anything in this state but we are feeding and clothing wastes of society.
Long story short? Good riddance. Wrong doings have consequences and THATS what people need to open there eyes to.
The above is the exhibit of a slave who never got off the cotton field in his mind.
You are a moron.
You are an idiot, my sista. STFU and let the adults talk…
There will literally be dozens of killings of black people by black people in the coming days all over the country and over the city. We will probably not react as harshly. Here's a question: Let's say that the young man that was shot was white but he was also wanted for killing a pregnant black woman in Seattle. Yep, say he was a person of interest. Would we still be calling the cops pigs? I'm gonna go ahead and say no. We are our greatest enemies by far today. No one is doing a more effective job of shooting down young black people today than….And as we are reacting let's pause for a moment and think of the hundreds of bodies that dropped that got no press because it was black folk killing black folk. No one will respect you if you don't respect yourself. Same goes for a people.
What if this was your son? When we make our judgements as though each victim/perpetrator/police were our own son or daughter, we see with clearer eyes.
Would you say that if the young man who was shot was alleged to have murdered your pregnant sister?
So anyone who breaks the law deserves to be shot? We should execute everyone in prison? Really think about what you are saying. Regardless of your sense of justice, you have to realize how ridiculous that statement is.
If it were my son, and he ran from the police, while I may be upset it doesn't change the fact that he had done something wrong and got what i feel was deserved.
You are an idiot with absolutely no understanding of history
If you read what I had written, you'd see that I was referring specifically to repeat criminals that do not learn their lesson the first time. Rape someone, go to jail, get off on good behavior, back on the streets and rape another person. Go to jail again? Not in my world. Those are the people that need to be dragged out back and shot, in the back if need be. Why keep them here if they are persistently breaking the law without care of the legal repercussions?
Watch some of those "lockdown" shows and you can see it first hand. Idiots that do nothing but fight or collaborate against prison guards after being imprisoned over the most petty things. Not self defense because of some type of gang environment, but out looking to get in to fights to prove who is "toughest" or who's the "better man". Guess what, the "better man" is the one laughing at them watching from home.
Hey idiots: the guy had a gun and shot at the officer first. But "FUCKTHEPOLICE" amirite? *facepalm*
All of you reactionary morons need to step back and look at it objectively for a moment and do you research. This kid DID have a gun, multiple corroborating witnesses reported that it was taken by another witness after the kid fell. Police recovered the weapon thanks to tips. He was also wanted in Washington for KILLING A PREGNANT GIRL as well as SEX OFFENSES. This was not a "good kid" who was running away over a transfer. This was a career criminal with a gun. You should be thanking your gods that he is off the streets and can no longer kill pregnant women.
So the Police shot the victim that was ALLEGEDLY shooting at them, surrounded him with guns as he took is last breaths, but didn't think to secure the weapon ? Really, you want me to believe that.
So the cop recognized him, was certain of his ID, Reviewed his case, convicted him, sentenced him and carried out his sentence and all in the blink of an eye. Wow.
So if your son ran when they would ask for his transfer papers, you would really think that he got what he deserved? Really? I remember when I was around 16-17 I often made jokes where I would run from the guys checking the tickets on the bus, even though I HAD a ticket, only because back then I thought it was funny. So I deserved a bullet, for you this constitutes a crime, right?
Then what do actual criminals deserve? The ones who kill, rape or steal?
I guess you would shoot children for stepping on your lawn.
You really have some problems, man.
They should have thrown rocks at the police, rioted, and let the city know the people are tired of being shaken down by over armed, juiced up goon squads with badges and guns. WTF was that cop doing with an assault rifle out????!!!!
Whether or not we believe our penile system is serving the best interests of the public, (it quite obviously is not,) or whether you have a personal belief that is in favor of capitol punishment, (which is fine, and not the issue here,) it is important to realize that there is a tremendous risk that the assumption of "he got what he deserved" makes, in regards to our civil liberties.
When the police are no acting as agents of the law, where their "job" is to *detain* suspects, even those thought and/or known to be violent criminals, so that they may then be subject to due process, then we no longer have civil servants as a police force, we no longer are living in a democracy, we are subjecting ourselves to totalitarianism, and we are practically begging for the instigation of Martial Law to fall upon us. The reason why the rights of criminals is important, is because they are *your rights too.* If you fail to make that distinction, so will "they." And your innocence or guilt will no longer be subject to scrutiny in the eyes of the "law," they can and will execute their instruments of power upon you, by force if necessary, and be damned the consequences because there is no law, no government, and no public, (that being us/you,) to hold them accountable to their actions.
Typical black crowd trying to make the cops look bad, this guy was NOT UNARMED if you search the other amateur videos you will see one of the crowd picking up a firearm and running off with it. Black people do it all the time, just to interfere with an investigation and then hold demonstrations afterwards calling it a unjustified. Here these officers are trying to reduce crime and homicides in the neighborhood and the author who wrote this article demonizes them. Someone innocent could have gotten killed. I hate how everytime a black person gets killed by the police the whole african american community goes in uproar because they think it was racist even when it's blatantly obvious who was in the wrong. If you fire at the police…the police WILL FIRE BACK, it don't fucking matter whether you're a man or a woman, black, white, asian or latino.
When you recieve a ticket, they run your id for any possible warrants or previous arrests, thats probably why he ran because he knew he would get arrested, however, there is no excuse for the police shooting him, unless he is did in fact have a gun. Which is still unclear at this point.
Your answer is to riot? Moron…
I can't believe the piece of shit who wrote this article. Here these cops are trying to make the neighborhoods a safer place for everybody and you write an article snubbing them. This guy was NOT unarmed, someone in the crowd picked up the firearm and then ran off with it, it even shows in one of the videos. He discharged his firearm at police officers with absolute disregard for others around him and you write an article antagonizing the cops all while complaining that our neighborhoods aren't safe enough? you're a fucking schmuck willie ratcliff
Sourced from Reddit:
"I'm not normally one to rush to defend police, but this 'kid' DID have a gun that was removed by a witness before the police showed up. The police got the gun back after other witnesses tipped them off. There is video of this guy with his gun and he was also wanted in Washington for killing a pregnant girl. Oh yes, the kid had recently been released from a prison in Washington after serving time for convictions stemming from a King County sex offense.
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/…
That's right….they would let the suspects gun just lay on the ground without protecting it? Bull Sh*t….and you need an AK47 for a fare evasion.
It's very clear. They recovered the gun.
this is what really happened:
http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=news/loc…
…and the ghetto Nazis who run Bayview HP are gonna execute this witness if they find him. The Ministry of Propaganda called SS F BEY VIEW will try to hunt down this witness so he cant testify.
THIS "PAPER" LIES!!
I hope someone checks the forensics report for the presence of gunpowder residue on his hands. If this isn't present then there is no way he could have fired a gun.
The attitudes of this writer and all other police haters in the black community are big part of the reason why blacks are at the bottom of the totem pole. Please do riot and burn down as many buildings in your ghetto as you like. The white and Asian owners will collect their insurance and sell the land for condos that you can not afford. Blacks will remain reviled and despised by all other races.
Maybe some day in the distant future the black race will evolve and their average IQ will rise above the imbecile level. Until then keep blaming whitey and the police dept. for your baboonesque behavior.
Rattle the bars on your cages and we will throw you some peanuts if we are in a generous mood.
I just watched the tape they were stalling for time waiting for him to die! He was on the ground covered in a POOL of blood,he posed no threat to them, it was the tactical let him bleed to death police maneuver, stall instead of emergency medical attention. Reminiscent of Oscar Grant on the Bart platform, they purposely delayed emergency medical attention knowing the victim didn't pose a threat to them.
These are orchestrated police tactics to guarantee a death. The video tape speaks volumes ,look at the time elapse to he time any "real" help arrived .This is a travesty after the shooting,the police go into slow motion nonchalant care for the victim knowing well he doesn't pose a threat. The sick psychology of vigilante policemen on steroid the title of my next book.
They didn't want him to live and tell the truth ! They knew when they saw him gasping for air it was his final moments,his body was riddled with bullets from the vigilante cops ! They went into let him bleed to death mode. The scenes in the …video of the deliberately moving slowly towards the victim is part of the act,as if he was going to spring to his feet and open fire.The big lie has to be told the fabricated scenario to fortify their lies has been rehearsed. CPR in this case means Con- cockted Police Response- a stall tactic in slow motion hoping the victim dies. This was so deliberate a blind man could see it and paint it in colors!
-the video tape alone could be the subject of a class action lawsuit. Look at the elapse time ,the vigilante cops still acting like he was a threat ,I've not seen so much bullchit acting since John Wayne won an academy award.
The world is being exposed as to how this society’s vigilantes deal with African Americans, they are hand cuffed and shot in the back and white jurors see nothing wrong. I bet if any of those white jurors had a son in the same position hey… would not have taken that stand.They saw Rodney King beaten like a runaway slave by a swarm of white cops and saw nothing wrong .There is serious racial divide in this country and sometimes it implodes. keeping fooling your self and pretending the laws passed made anything equal,we have a segregated society that’s unattractively race base. You could deny it , but so what.the reality of the division is remains.
Uh, he could have easily dropped the gun or handed it off to someone else. But no, you're right, you know everything that happened because a website on the internet showed a video of him dying.
Reminder: Americans have the right to bear arms.
Um, this guy was convicted of child rape. If you ask me, SFPD did us all a favor.
The reason i believe the "perpetrators" is because I live in the PNW and am aware of all the stuff this punk did to people (i.e. other BLACK PEOPLE) before he fled to SF to hide out for all the crap he's done here. He had a gun when he was here so I'm sure he had a gun there. If this was truly a poor kid who was scared over not having a transfer I'd be enraged and right there with you. But this was a punk who prostituted a kid out and shot and killed a pregnant woman.
I know because this dumb ass has been all over the news here and it was in our local media before it hit there that this was the same guy.
I don't know what exactly happened and if you weren't there you don't either. Why do you automatically assume he DIDN'T have a gun?
He just got out of jail for pimping a CHILD.
To answer your question: The article states the police fired after being fired upon. You should read the article and others before going out into the street breaking things. The man's name is Kenneth Harding (19). He's wanted for murder in Washington state.
People here don't want to know that though.
This is an irresponsible article. The author is a disinformer on par with Faux News 'reporters.'.
@Erik: Do you think his firearm was registered to his name? Do you think he went through the precess and the REQUiREMENTS like taking a firearm course and passing a written/hands-on test oh and HAVE A CLEAN RECORD to be qualified to carry a firearm?… PS: Dont procreate.
He had a gun…
http://sfist.com/2011/07/17/demonstrators_protest…
And he was wanted in connection with the killing of a 19yr old pregnant woman. Without video of the shooting, there is no way to know if SFPD could have apprehended him without killing him. That being said, given the way the crowd reacted, and having a gun stuck in my face 3 times in 4 years within a block of where the shooting happened mostly for just being a skinny white kid, I wouldn't take any fucking chances either.
Don't want nervous trigger happy cops? ACT MORE CIVIL IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD AND TOWARD THOSE OF US PASSING THROUGH. Cops fear for their lives too…and so would you. Also, killing pregnant teens and carrying a gun and running from the cops after breaking the law, not a recipe for avoiding being shot by the police.
That being said: Now it's all a distraction from whether SFPD could have apprehended him reasonably without endangering themselves or killing him…which is the only thing that should matter
cause if he was running, back turned, and not holding the gun, their asses should fry!
seamus, you're as much of a moron as the pigs who murdered Kenneth Harding. Harding was NOT wanted for murder and there were no shots fired by him. The pigs are lying.
Pray tell, if John Malvo wasn’t a psycho with a gun, what was he? Or are spree killers higher up on the order of being by virtue of not having a badge?
I’m not a fan of the police, but LaShonda seems too stupid to grasp the irony of her own post.
Hey wasn't going to be detained until he started running away. Just take the t100 ticket and not pay…could he be running for some other reason? Like a criminal past?
My son would have paid his fair or walked instead. I wontvraise a thief.
What is wrong with the POC movement? I'll tell you what's wrong. We rush to the defense of ANY CREEP who gets killed by PD. Have any of you even bothered to read the story? This guy was SHOOTING indiscriminately over his shoulder as he ran because he was wanted for the MURDER of a pregnant woman. He could care less who got shot in the way. He was sentenced to 22 months in jail for trying to FORCE a 13 year old girl into prostitution after having sex with her. This is our martyr?? No wonder no one takes us seriously any more….
The police are at fault for having a better aim apparently…because as we all know, innocent people flea all of the time.
P.S. does anyone know if he actually did have a transfer ticket, sounds like someone owe $2 to SF Muni.
Guilty or innocent is not the point. A young man lay in his blood and the police made sure he is as good as dead before he got attention. I hear some cruel and crass comments that make me wonder. Rules of war: you always care for the injured no matter which side they come from. The war on terror is stripping some of us of ethics and compassion. I hate to think I will grow old in a country with so many heartless people.
Nice job SFPD!
One less piece of human garbage cluttering up Planet Earth.
When are we going to stop playing the role of victim and start owning up for the savage behavior taking place in our community by OUR OWN PEOPLE! I hold bias media, such as this one, responsible for helping to "aid and abet" the ignorance running rampant in the Bayview. I grew up on 3rd and Ingerson and am truly disgusted by the disrespectful, shameful genocidal destruction at the hands of my own damn people. Where's the "outrage" for that? I've lost countless friends and two cousins-murdered NOT by the cops-but by young brothers just like that boy in the story above. Unfortunately, I have relatives who still live in Hunters Point that I visit only on VERY SPECIAL OCCASIONS and trust me–it's not the damn Police I fear when I go there!
Patrick– PAY ATTENTION. This guy HAD A GUN, SHOT AT THE COPS, and they RETURNED FIRE. I'm glad they took this mental midget off the streets and saved us all the cost of a trial. His death has made the world a better place.
What a bunch of idiots. he wasn't shot for not paying his fare. he's a wanted felon for the murder of a pregnant19-year-old, and he just shot three teenagers in WA. he also just got out of jail for forcing a 14-year-old into prostitution, and before that he was found guilty of raping a 13-year-old. So the question is not, "How come a Black man can get shot for not having a transfer?" It's "How come a Black man can do this to three other black teenagers, and a black unborn baby and think he can get away with it?" And why do you have to make it about race anyway? They didn;t shoot him because he's black. They shot him because he's a rapist, murderer and felon with a rap sheet a mile long wanted for murder as recently as last week. Do your research, people. SFPD: Thank you for doing your job before this guy hurt or killed anyone else.
what happened to "innocent until proven guilty?" if he stands accused of murder then he should go to trial. This does NOT justify unrelated police shooting him for an unrelated incident.
In Ella Baker's words, black civil rights leader, which still ring true today.
"Until the killing of black men, black mothers' sons Is as important as
the killing of white men, white mothers' sons.
We who believe in freedom cannot rest
We who believe in freedom cannot rest until it comes"
Unfortunately not much has changed since her time.
Dang, there is literally no context to this piece besides the fact that a young man is dead. Instead of using it as a reactionary piece, could you at least get some information surrounding the incident, and actually report something?
And the cops knew he who he was when they murdered him? right?
Because everyone not a cop says that he didn't have a gun…there is also no gun in the video. The vid does show cops letting a kid bleed to death while harassing people videoing it with their phones.
So why does everyone not in a uniform say that he did not have a gun? And why does the video not show a gun? Where are the bullet holes? they must have hit something right? Was their powder on his fingers? Do the bullet holes match the gun? Did the gun happen to be one that was previously recovered by police?
You are probably just a racist.
Yeah, we should be more like China!
Another coon gets killed for a crime and the whole nigger neighborhood goes up in arms. First off, that is a 100% black neighborhood so of course no black person could EVER do any wrong. Second, whats the difference if the cops kill him or another black person. I'm sure some gang member would have killed him later in life anyway. Oh well, one less shitskin that my kids have to worry about.
Kudos to the police. They did their jobs well taking this scumbag out. Give it a few days and the rest of the story will come out and the majority of you people saying F the police will realize how foolish you have been.. I didn't really expect fair reporting considering this is a black run website and the kid happened to be black. Don't be a scumbag and you won't get shot, plain and simple.
well maybe I'm just naive… But a guy who is NOT currently shooting at anyone, who is a SUSPECT (aka NOT CONVICTED) in a crime and MIGHT have other criminal history, is automatically OK for the cops to shoot him multiple times in the back in what is clearly an execution? Apparently "innocent until PROVEN guilty in a COURT OF LAW" is no longer applicable in the US? Or how about the questions they needed to ask in regard to these other cases. Oh forget that, the OK Corral treatment took care of that.
Wanted is not convicted. Suspected is not convicted. But hey, if this is OK to gun down SUSPECTS in the street, why not just form full on lynch mobs? That's OK by the logic you police excusers are using. Likewise pistols at dawn for petty BS disagreements. Forget small claims court, get the duelling pistols instead.
Those of you excusing the EXECUTION and MURDER of this TEENAGER are disgusting. So much for respect of actual LAW. Apparently accusations of wrongdoing are enough to satisfy your vile bloodlust.
You sir, and I use sir loosely, are an idiot. How the hell can you have a class action lawsuit when only 1 person was affected by this shooting? I hope to god you don't have kids, but I'm sure you have 8 kids with 8 different women. If you knew anything, I'm sure the cops were worried about their safety having a crowd of about 50people around chanting fuck the police and getting in there face. The crowd gathering around acting aggressively is why they weren't administering any care on the guy. It looked to me like the ambulance got there pretty quick too.
It's going to be interesting when the gun that was found at the scene of this kids stupidity is linked to the shooting in Seattle through ballistics. How will you dummies feel about that then?
Haha, you people asking how a gun could be found 25 feet away are pretty dumb. If the gun was in his hand because he was firing at the officers midsprint, and he fell down while running, where do you think the gun would go? I'm not sure if you guys can think at all, but metallic things seem to slide on the ground, especially with the forward momentum he had running away from them.
Sounds like you got yourself a cause and by the positive votes, some supporters to boot!
Go to it , Brother!
If not you, then who else?
I will feel the same way, James; that the fact that this man was indeed a criminal does not justify his murder w/o due process.
this is absolutely appalling!
police are there to enforce the law, which in turn is to PROTECT THE PEOPLE!,
not to kill them, this is disgusting.
R.I.P young man.
Nope. The cop just noticed Mr. Harding fire a gun at him, so he did not have time to request ID, arrest him, bring him to trial, etc. I'm glad all of you down in "da hood" have the time to do all the appropriate measures when being fired at. Guess this cop just didn't have the time to do all of that. So much for Mr. Harding. Who cares?
Well, go get the job of police officer in that neighborhood and when you see someone laying face down who "maybe" has a gun, walk over to them, turn them over and have a polite conversation with them about "capitol" punishment. Maybe chat with some people in the crowd to get their opinion. Seemed like a nice safe, rational bunch. Until then, GOOD JOB SFPD.
Oh Michael, you homo. You seem interested in this black boy …. kind of like Jeffrey Dahmer.
THAT IS JUST RACIST!!!! I don't mean your comment. I mean the fact that it was black and mexican cops doing the shooting. Those guys must have hate in their hearts for the black man.
Yeah, these black and mexican cops are there trying to protect the black people in that neighborhood and they practically get lynched. Meanwhile, white guys like me sit safely hundreds of miles away and wonder how you can be so stupid.
Rioting has a long histoy of fixing social injustices. The Watts riots transformed a poor neighborhood into a thriving suburb. Oh and don't forget Compton after the Rodney King injustice. After a week of destroying buildings, beatings, shootings and other assorted mayhem turned a once gang infested hell hole into the envy of LA. Oh wait… that didn't happen.
Here's an anology: Your rich neighbor kills your dog because he thought it was going to bite his child. You're upset at him, so you punch your wife about the face, throw your money in a sewer, and set your house on fire. Then when your other neighbors come to see what the comotion is about, you point at your rich neighbor and yell, "Look what he made me do! I'm the victim." Your neighbors lament the death of your dog, but that quickly fades as they go back about the daily tasks of living. Meanwhile your rich neighbor, unscathed save for a few admonishments, goes back into his nice house, bangs his hot wife, plays with his kids, and counts his money while you sit in the ashes of your former worldy possessions and wonder why people just don't give a shit. But by all means riot, burn Bayview to the ground. It just saves the man the cost of demolition before gentrification.
What should the police do turn their backs on an angry mob yelling "Fuck the police!" Maybe if the community had complied with police, the officers could have given some first aid.
No you don't. In war you shoot them again. Not that this is a war. It shouldn't be black and white. It should be wrong and right. If the kid was unarmed, those cops should pay. If he was shooting and did what he was accused of, he got what he had comming. As far as medical attention, cops don't carry surgical equipment. And the crowd didn't make things eaiser.
I like the name, I am guessing you are a redditor.
Quote from the article: "…reflects the common wisdom in the community that this was a public execution with a purpose: “The white man did the same thing during slavery…"
That's just ignorance.
You will believe what you will believe.
There is nothing in my post that is untrue. You label me a moron without indicating why. Harding is wanted by the Seattle Police homicide detectives for the murder of Tanaya Gilbert. The police report Harding shot at them.
You should be able to see beyond what you want to be true or you're no better than some delusional Republican who refuses to accept there was no WMD.
He was a parolee and a resident of another state, there is no chance that he had a permit to carry anywhere in the state of California, let alone San Francisco, a city with some of the strictest gun control laws.
I never said Harding was guilty of murder. I said the police in Seattle want Harding in the murder of Gilbert. Please read the words, don't read into them. He was chased for a ticket & apparently shot at police, which is why they shot back.
Who said he was guilty and who said he was shot for the Seattle stuff. The police didn't discover he was wanted for murder until after he was dead.
Good grief.
You're condemning the police officers involved while the investigation is still ongoing. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing". Seeing you use the words execution means you've already made up your mind that he did not have a gun and he did not shoot at the police. Innocent until proven guilty has no barring on this situation in regards to "the suspect". It wasn't known by the officers that he was wanted for questioning nor did it have any effect on how he was treated. He ran, leading to a pursuit. Eventually, the officers felt threatened and shot at him, mortally wounding him. However, you've managed to turn a situation with hazy facts into a grandstanding speech for yourself in defense of an "innocent man". Guess what, he was guilty. Guilty of running from the police over a $2 muni fare. While it's not a crime punishable by death, it's a stupid decision that led to his death, and it was a decision that he made on his own. Soon enough it will be known whether the SFPD was unjustified, or if he was also guilty of firing his weapon at the police.
I'll just say it, you were right, you're naive. Jumping to conclusions without all the facts is something you do when you're nine. If you want to be taken seriously when you grow up, try supporting your argument. You're writing this as if it's October 10th, 2011, the investigation is over and it was proven that he was shot in cold blood. In reality, it's July 19th, 2011 and the tests that will give light to facts of this situation have not been finished. You don't have a foot to stand on.
He read real news articles. That's how he knows. Do a Google news search and you will find articles on the incident.
Here is a 19 yr old youth his body riddled with bullets ,he's squirming on the floor crying like a worm in a pool of blood.The police claim he reason they didn't give him immediate medical attention was because they feared he still had a gun,and when they asked repeatedly for 90 seconds for him to show his hands he didn't .Have you ever hears of anything so faccan stupid, here is a youth shot 10 times or more lying in a pool of blood and he's supposed to respond with his hands up as he drags himself in agony in a cesspool of blood . This police version of what happened is to be filed under science fiction. They claim he ran from them and was simultaneously fired at them. He must have been the incredible rubber man, to have pulled off such a fantastic feat. Their version of what happened is the closest thing I've seen to a cartoon.
Asking the teen to show his hands after blasting his back open with 10 bullets of more, just think for a second if you were shot one times do you think you could show your hands laying in a spool of your own blood. Their version and concept of events resembles fantasy island,in order to grasp it I will need to find my midget buddy and put on my white suit and yell the plane the plane they are playing bullshit again on the plane.boss. Fantasy Island revisited. We need to wake up and smell reality it's waiting for you !
sad
I can't believe you supporters are more upset about the police killing him than the guy killing a pregnant black woman. If a white guy had shot and killed a pregnant black woman then everyone would be up in arms, but since he was black, where is the indignation? Where is the anger? Oh it's at the police who you all have made to be the badguys in your head. Yes there are bad cops, but not all cops are bad, and not all situations like this are 'they are out to get us' sort of situations. Grow up.
Black folks will maytor and march for ANY kind of dead Black kid that was shot by a law enforcement official, even if it’s a serial rapist like Lovelle Mixon or this child pimp, just so long as the kid is Black and killed by the police.
That’s the difference between Blacks and most other races. White people don’t give other White child molesters a pass just because they’re White. We judge those people based on their character.
Black people don’t do this. By and large, the majority of them will completely ignore the person’s character and give the kid a pass just because of the color of his skin.
So who’s being racist now, Bayview?
Couldn't have said it better myself.
Why are police checking fairs and giving tickets to people on the platform. Shouldn't they be checking for transfers of people that are on the tram. The police obviously over reacted. Now that is clear.
They tell the media that the teen was a person of interest in a Seattle murder case of a pregnant teen. That he was a felon. If they were so sure their shooting him in the back was so justified. Why would they tell the media all his dirt. Obviously, because they know that the media will print it.
In on going investigations police don't reveal these types of facts. Oh yeah but he's dead. That makes it ok. What about his family. They have to see the name of their child thrown even further into the mud. Whatever happened to innocent till proven guilty.
He may be guilty of discharging a weapon in the city and possibly guilty of possessing an unregistered gun, etc, and yes, he could have hurt someone but he didn't, and no one could say if he would have, except God. but his actions are not crimes that carry a death sentence. If he harmed someone, then he would have to answer for it, but trial by police we do not need.
good riddance. he was a POS. he had a gun and the cops defended themselves. one less low life scumbag breathing my air.
Yes let's toss out the facts with and focus on the sensationalism, Vito. That's productive.
He didn't hurt anyone in this instance, but he did kill an innocent pregnant black woman doing the very same thing, shooting indescriminately. He was also convicted of pimping a 14 yr old girl. Is this someone you really want to make a martyr for your 'cause'?
Right. Anyone who disagrees with you is just a racist. Smart logic, there.
The video DOES show a gun. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTbJEy7sj_4&fe…
A small silver handgun is clearly visible on the ground and one of the bystanders picked it up.
But, hey, don't let facts get in the way of your dismissive name-calling.
Is the reason he lay there for over 2:45 seconds, drowning in his own blood while two "officers" kept their weapons trained on him, because he was a threat to their safety? It was a cold-blooded assassination. It happens quite frequently in some communities. Where was their humanity? After being shot, at least, 10 times, struggling to get up, all he got was weapons pointed at him, as if ready to inflict another 10 gunshot wounds. WWJD? Such hypocrasy! Is this old Amerikkka?
Another black in the morgue. Why is this a bad thing? http://blog.michaelcrook.org/2011/07/arrogance-of…
Your reporting is insanely horrible and vague of the truth. This kind of so called, "Journalism." Is exactly why journalism is so worthless in America. Black cop shot a black man. And who was the other cop? He was Hispanic. The race card should be put away just as fast as its been pulled out.
Sad that so many of you are so racist, what happened here was tragic the situation could have been handled better. To try and point fingers on second hand information is a little silly, No-one other than those directly involved know what happened, we can speculate all we want as to who's fault it is that this young mans life is over. The truth of the matter is, no gun ever saved anyone's life. They take lives. They wont give you CPR, or call an ambulance. A gun wont go into a burning building to save you. When coupled with the passion of human emotion all guns do is harm those they were made to protect, wounding them physically or emotionally for life. If there were no guns on the streets there would be no more gun related murders committed by either cops or criminals.
There's a lot of that going around. Note the Shawna Forde murders and trial. There's white people out there who cannot accept that Forde (a "Minuteman") murdered a Hispanic family (leaving one wounded). It's just like this website, political desire trumps facts. Some people get overwhelmed by what they WANT the truth to be.
It's not just a black thing. Just go to Fox News to see white people giving whites a pass on all kinds of stuff.
Was this guy racist?
"There is another class of coloured people who make a business of keeping the troubles, the wrongs, and the hardships of the Negro race before the public. Having learned that they are able to make a living out of their troubles, they have grown into the settled habit of advertising their wrongs — partly because they want sympathy and partly because it pays. Some of these people do not want the Negro to lose his grievances, because they do do not want to lose their jobs."
It will be a blessed day when all you CAVE Dwelling Troglodykes
are exterminated from the earth by your initiated wars in Afghanistan, Iraq and Libya
My Coroprate Amerikkka instruct all of Apalachia from WV, Ak any where else in America
to be placed in combat areas of the world where you'll be annihilated
Include Yourself in that Human Garbage Clutter
Matter of fact YOU do qualify to be a human
The truth will, hopefully, come out. If he shot at the police, he got what he deserved. If not, the cops who fired should go to prison. Interestingly, the man in the pink shirt from 1:08 to 1:16 looks like he has a gun tucked into his back. Check it out!
"Criminals" do kill innocent people….all of the time. And yes, it is an outrage, whenever any innocent live(s) are taken. But the fact is, is that the police are supposedly hired as law-enforcement agents, not assassins.
The principle, imo, has nothing to do about race at all. The paper may have run this story irresponsibly, but the fact remains….the cops shot down a dude who was in retreat and then let him lay dying in the street. These are not the types of individuals who I feel I can trust to "serve and protect" the people. If your fear and violent reactions can take over your common sense and self-control…. and then your human compassion…you have no right to be in a position of power and responsibility as a "servant of the people."
This kid should have been apprehended, not killed, and awaiting a trial. Not because I believe in the judicial system as it exists, but because if we can condone this one incident as "ok," then we open the doors for continued atrocities committed by the often-"above-the-law-"police, which in time will only grow worse.
"…but his actions are not crimes that carry a death sentence. If he harmed someone, then he would have to answer for it, but trial by police we do not need."
Exactly.
"Criminals" do kill innocent people….all of the time. And yes, it is an outrage, whenever any innocent live(s) are taken. But the fact is, is that the police are supposedly hired as law-enforcement agents, not assassins.
The principle, imo, has nothing to do about race at all. The paper may have run this story irresponsibly, but the fact remains….the cops shot down a dude who was in retreat and then let him lay dying in the street. These are not the types of individuals who I feel I can trust to "serve and protect" the people. If your fear and violent reactions can take over your common sense and self-control…. and then your human compassion…you have no right to be in a position of power and responsibility as a "servant of the people."
This kid should have been apprehended, not killed, and awaiting a trial. Not because I believe in the judicial system as it exists, but because if we can condone this one incident as "ok," then we open the doors for continued atrocities committed by the often-"above-the-law-"police, which in time will only grow worse.
Just make sure you burn down the police station when you riot rather then your own damn neighborhood…..
Mellie, he had a gun and was shooting at the police. I'd like to see you just 'apprehend' a guy shooting indescriminately at you with a gun. The guy killed a pregnant black woman by doing the same exact thing in Seattle. How can you say they were not protecting the people in the area?
Also, there was literally nothing they could do for the guy once he was on the ground other than call and wait for paramedics. CPR doesn't work like it does in the movies, CPR is only useful for cardiac arrest, not bullet wounds. In fact it would have only quickened his bleeding out.
every non-police witness confirms that he didn't have a gun and couldn't have been shooting. why do you think otherwise, did you see it happen?
how do you know? did you see it? because everyone else who saw it, except for the cops, says he didn't. but you're psychic?
I also read and the article from Mercury News says
"Harding was a person of interest in last Wednesday's shooting death of Tanaya Gilbert, 19, in South Seattle, Sainez said. Family members said Gilbert was several weeks pregnant. Three other people were also injured in that shooting.
Seattle police Det. Mark Jamieson told The Associated Press he could not confirm that Harding was linked to those shootings. " THE DATE OF THE ARTICLE July 18 2011
***************
This article is from a GOOGLE Search and Mercury News has features "REAL News"
you are the epitome of retarded. Did you read any of the comments or do any research before you commented? He had a gun. and turns out this guy is a complete scumbag.
How about instead of rioting and turning violent, Chris, why not take King's approach and raise up your children to be solid educated members of society rather than putting violent thugs on a pedastal?
Considering that the highest branches of Govt have been known to create dishonest justifications for their reasons of waging and perpetuating Wars in other countries which result in untold civilian casualty, aka, "collateral damage," I think we shouldn't be so quick to assume that the story we are now being told about this young man's history is an absolute irrefutable "truth."
But for the sake of the argument, let's say that this man was indeed a criminal, a serial-killer even.
Well unfortunately, the guy wasn't gunned down for his criminal-record, he was gunned-down because he was RUNNING AWAY and because he *may have* discharged a weapon.
For all the police knew at the time, he could have been mentally ill, or he may have just been high, or holding some drugs!
How is it that a person is killed for running from the cops and it is found justifiable based on alleged information about him discovered after-the-fact? The initial action of the shooting which led to his death has no basis in a *later-determined* justification.
Seriously, are we as a people ok w/ condoning the notion that if you run, you get popped? I actually saw this happen to a man, yet w/ a taser rather than bullets. The cops were just a few feet behind him, and honestly even that seemed unnecessary and was pretty disturbing.
Police *used to be* trained to use their weapons only as a last resort. Now it's more like "shoot first, rationalize it later."
And then the rest of us jump on the "rationalization band-wagon." Is this just indifference and inhumanity, or a lack to think for oneself?
innocent people usually run from the cops. he didn't run because he didn't pay the $2 he most likely paid because he committed all of those crimes. Also, he DID (like my use of caps, I'm copying you) shoot at the police, and the police fired back which ended in him getting killed. I believe you could call that self-defense. Police officers aren't immortal and they fear for their lives too.. Stop trying to hate on the cops for doing their job and protecting our community.
He fired at the police, the police returned fire. What did u expect the police to do? Additionally, if you had a gun and someone fired at you, what would u do? probably shoot back to protect your own damn life.
do u honestly think its impossible to shoot while running? comon.. man
Mellie, I'll say this again. He had a gun and was shooting at the police.
There isn't a grand conspiracy here. He was shooting at the police while he was running away and got shot before he could injure/kill anyone like he did in Seattle . Why is that so difficult to comprehend? please stop playing the victim card every. single. time. something like this happens. Stop crying wolf, because it cheapens the times where an injustice really does take place.
This is not one of those times.
This guy is a Mixon.
He's no Grant.
Let's say also for the sake of the argument, that he did shoot at the police, that that is a 100% proven fact. I understand the "human" reaction of self-defense. But it is also my understanding that police are trained to use restraint when using their weapons, and are taught how to use them properly. If it were proven that he struck someone, I further understand the human-reaction of the police indiscriminately firing *their* weapons in return. But that was not the case. Rather than being wounded, he was shot fatally, multiple times.
Indiscriminate use of force. Again, the role of the police is to "serve and protect." They are *trained* to handle these types of situations, and not to let their instincts get the better of them. This goes waaay beyond "protection" in my opinion, but see it as you will.
And again, the cops had no knowledge of his history, and I doubt were acting out of concern for any of the possibly-pregnant women in the area. =/ Point being, the situation was mishandled. And if that wasn't dispairing enough, we have all of these folks justifying it away because of character-assumptions…a total distraction from the relevant issues at hand.
See comment above to augustineRed.
Btw, I am not trained in gun-use, so I'd probably actually pose less of threat.
I just read up on Mixon. Seriously? You all tout him as a hero? The child rapist? You all are f'ed up in the head. I wish the best for you, but honestly if you are at the point where you lift up a child raping cop killer as a hero then things are looking grim. Dr King and Booker T Washington would be sorely disappointed in what you all have become.
This is idiotic. He got shot for shooting at the police. "Get high" and shoot at the police, they will shoot you. "Hold some drugs" and shoot at police, they will shoot you. Run from and shoot at police, they will shoot you. NO ONE is saying he was shot because of his previous history or because of any reason other than shooting at the police.
I will put it very simply for all the people with comprehension problems on this site: He got shot because he was shooting at the police.
It was people from the community who saw him with the the gun, saw him shoot the gun, saw the gun on the ground, and ultimately helped recover the gun from whoever grabbed it. Do you think the guy who filmed it all and was on the news was fake? An actor? Planted by police? Lying?
Just Watch
And whrn its foumd that he didn't have a gun, are you still going to complain that he deserved it
Of course we would still be calling them pigs, because that is what they are. This notion that black people are killing more black people than white people is silly. The fact is, white people kill more white people and non white people than any other people on the planet.
I watched the video. I don't know what happened before the video. But it is the most shocking video I have every seen. The Police look dazed. They are not even watching as people come up behind them. The crowed in screaming and mad. But no one not the police and not anyone else is working to save that child. He is very much alive and bleeding horribly and neither the police nor the crowd try to help him. The Police looked totally lost they are not clearing the area they are not telling people to back off. Police are walking up to and past some of the police but no one talks to the dying child. Some one should have told him to lie still someone should have held him to stop the bleeding. The police don't look worried about him shooting them but they don't help. The crow is too angry. Yell your going to lose your job and where is the ambulance. But couldn't have someone have help that child?
Well, I guess if I had just opened fire on Police officers, I'd be thinking "I'm fucked! I really shouldn't have done that".
They handled it poorly, but none of this wouldn't have happened had he not been a parolee who fled, a parolee carrying a weapon or a parolee who shot at the police while running from them. You make comment after comment condemning the police for his death when Harding was to blame for his own demise.
You want Fantasy Island? Keep your eyes closed and keep imagining that the police are to blame for everything and that you have been and forever will be right.
Another thing about Black folks.
Black folks don’t care about their females. Little girls, proud females, single moms, their own daughters, their own moms. Black men don’t care about females, you’re just another b*tch to them.
Look at Lovelle Mixon
Dude raped several females in the Bay Area and amonst the most so called radicall leftist support of that piece of human garbage I never once heard anyone say a prayer to the females he raped.
Look at this thread.
Can you find any of this punks supporters that have stopped to say a prayer to the pregnant girl that got murdered or the 13-year-old girl that this punk raped and then later tried to pimp out when she was 14?
Yeah, I thought so.
Pay attention females.
This is what Black folks think about you.
Your statement is paralyzed by rhetoric but let's go through it. So to be clear, if the young, pregnant black woman that was killed was your wife or sister, you wouldn't call the pigs would you? Ok. What would you do if you found the person who you thought that the person who did this was in front of you? Maybe you would sit down for tea. (After that is how disputes are being settled in the low income black community. (That's why the murder rate is so low there. Right??) Finally, how would you reply to a Tutsi woman who was gang raped by Hutus and watched her children killed by Hutus when she looks at you like a damn fool for saying that. Better yet, why don't you go say that in Seattle to Tanaya's people? (They shootin at the funerals over there though)
We must no longer comfort ourselves with saying things because they make us feel good. We must seek strategies that improve our condition. "I'm not here to say what you'd like to hear" Malcolm X
Penal system. a penile system will do something very different.
Black folks have a problem with love of self. Male or female old or young. We need to tell that truth. We simply cannot fight the power if we don't have the ability to love and respect ourselves. It is actually that simple. We invite the police to shoot us down like a cancer when we fail to deal with this kind of monstrous behavior within our community. If we have any consideration, love or hope for our community we must fight so that this line will not be able to ring truthful. "They're animals anyway. Let them lose their souls." The Godfather I. Oh and let's not forget that there are things happening in our community that ANIMALS DO NOT DO TO EACH OTHER!
See you folks at the rally……..
Harding, then 18, was initially charged with second degree rape of a child as well as attempted promoting prostitution, following allegations that he had sex with the 13-year-old whom he delivered to the Seattle Center area on Jan. 7, 2010.
Read more: http://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Pimp-shot-…
We need to get the BS out our lives yesterday.
Hey, moron. He shot at the cops. They found the gun. They found gunpowder residue on his cold, dead hands. When you shoot indiscriminantly in a busy street, you forfeit any right to continue living. The cops did the right thing: take this psycho asshole off the earth. Good riddance. He deserve to die.
I'd rather start with your house.
Mel, you are the dumbest bitch i've heard from on here, which is sayin alot sista.
He isn't a child. He *was* nineteen.
Y'know who *is* a child? The 13 year old girl he was pimping for up in Seattle.
Kenneth deserved to die.
How about you, Sister Halimah Allah?
Ever think to say a prayer to the pregnant girl that got murdered or the 13-year-old girl that this punk raped and then later tried to pimp out when she was 14?
Yeah, I thought so.
This is what Black folks think about you.
I just have to say: When the gas explosions in San Bruno happened, several "witnesses" claimed a plain had crashed into the buildings. None of the witnesses would in good conscious tell the truth about the situation, these are the same folks who believe snitches should be "in stitches" after all. It is a community with a deep and often misguided mistrust of the law.
your link doesn't work
he had a gun, their are just bad people out there.
think twice next time i take the T. some teenager could be packin heat
Black folk WAKE UP… stop protecting thugs that terrorize our neighborhoods and people. This cat wasn't shot because he evaded fare. He was shot because he chose to fire on 5-0. That'll get you popped every time and justified. If he'd shot at the average dude on the street, you'd fired back also.To boot, this dude is convicted of raping (statutory) a young sistah, trying to turn out another-among other crimes AND wanted in conjunction of the burtal murder another young sistah and her unborn baby . WTF is wrong with ya'll ? Then if that wasn't bad enough, ya'll let these white, outside anarchist agitators come in and rile ya'll up and riot and tear up our stuff- not because they give a damn about this guy or any of our black asses- but to advance their cause of causing havoc. Ya'll some stupid mofo's. Tell me I'm lyin.
This is the worst newspaper in the history of movable type. I am simply in awe of how bad it is. And it's bad on so many levels–inflammatory, one-sided, rushing to damaging conclusions, bereft of logic, reason, or sound journalism. It's the Hidenburg of periodicals.
Don't run from the cops. That's the law.
The word is TROGLODYTE. If you're going to use big words in an attempt to make yourself appear smarter try to spell them right (or even close to right). As for the rest of your rant…what the hell are you talking about? You might as well just write LOUD NOISES!
Returning fire IS due process.
How did they overreact?? HE SHOT AT THEM. Are they just supposed to wait for him for him to stop shooting when he's ready, then charge him with "discharging a weapon"? Any time you start shooting, especially when you're a MURDER SUSPECT, you give the police good reason to shoot your ass. He raised the stakes in this situation, and he got what he deserved.
It doesn't matter WHO he was shooting at. When you pull out a gun and start shooting, you are putting the public in danger. The police are there to protect the public. See how this works?
I agree! There is no need to run from the police because of not having a transfer either. They just give you a ticket. This incident should not be connected with Oscar grant killing on Bart either. It's two different cases. If anything, Oscar Grant's best friend Johntue Caldwell being shot randomly in Hayward should last friday should have more connection with Oscar Grant's killing.
But You got the message you acknowlde that your are a low life CAVE Dwell'in Scum
Regardless of our self hate
How does it make it right for someone outside of the communities we dominate
to brazenly commit murder on people based on their color, based on a
assumed criminal pass.
When the same is never done to those who not of African descent who may have a criminal pass
who maybe a member of notoris gang like someone of Latin Descent-MS-13 who's know for violent behavior blacks and their own race.
Yeah I admit we got issues no doubt but I wont apauled any BEAST-Caucasoid
repeate violent attacks on us
This is the FIRST and ONLY article I have read that gives the real story. The Chron article backflips all over the place: He had a gun but the gun wasn't found? All the video shows no gun, all the witnesses say no gun. The bottom line here is that this young man was killed over a Muni transfer and all of you who think that's ok better realize that your kid could be next.
Can you show a link to the video that shows this? No didn't think so.
Your racism is nauseating.
What are our options? Any thoughts?
It's also against the law to run a red light. Do the cops have the right to shoot you for violating the law? I thought we had courts and due process and all that?
This kid was on the streets at 19 years old, so I doubt whatever offense he was previously convicted for was very serious, but even if it was, is killing the answer? Murder under color of law is still murder.
Bart Cops must go. They are untrained and heavily armed.
If they can't do the job legally, then they should get a new job.
"The absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence." – Donald Rumsfeld
These are the same people? Aren't you painting with a wide brush? How about if I say THESE PEOPLE are the ones who gun down innocent people in the streets (meaning white people because ONE white person did it). Right? That is exactly how ignorant you sound. I think YOU, as an individual, have a deep and often misguided trust for anything the cops tell you. Pathetic.
You should be more worried about the cops. What killings have taken place on MUNI and BART that were perpetrated by normal people? NONE. They are all killer cops.
How do you even know when the police called the ambulance. Yes it looks cruel with him on the ground, but he had a gun and everyone is screaming at the cops.
We are all Children of God no matter what we do. Yes we need to stop all the violence. Violence does not stop violence! Raise up above your violent ways and find your own way!
I will say it again the violence goes on the police and the community. Regardless of what happened before the video the video show that the police and the community together didn't care help the person lying on the ground bleeding to death.
And ya how stupid of all the White Lefties rioting in the Mission. They don't have the nerve to come down to
3rd street. They claim solidarity but they tell all their friends how violent 3rd street is. The mission has a high crime rate but they are still more scared of 3rd street.
The community needs to deal with the problems with the SFPD but also we as a community we need to deal with the fact that our anger kill this kid as much as the police billet. The angry yelling didn't get him care while he bled to death. The lack of care about his crimes before this also didn't help. We need to be a community that works to support our better selves!
Regardless of the innocence of this kid, the police can definitely abuse their power. While it's not always the case, some departments do play politics to gain power, and their corruption makes a bad name for all police. I don't know much about the police in the area in question, but it sounds like they may be similar to the corrupted police of New Orleans. For decades New Orleans police teamed up with the cities politicians to have complete power and no questions asked. They outright murdered people and got away with it. Whether the killing of this boy was just or not, there could very well be the same situation in this community. If so, I hope justice will come to it's people. Such corruption in the police department sends a message of hate and disrespect amongst a community, which only leads to more crime and civil unrest.
There was a gun on the ground. Period. Here's a still frame: http://anony.ws/di-XOSJ.jpg
Sorry, sucks it all went down but please don't ignore your gut.
Pathetic article. Make more excuses to demonize the police, please. It really goes to show how prejudice is used as a cop out by so many Americans today, instead of them taking responsibility for their own actions. I mean seriously? You're referencing slavery over a wanted felon gets killed for shooting at police in the streets? Stop pedaling ignorance, you're bringing yourself down.
If you watch one of these videos it is clear that there is a silver gun on the ground at the scene. But it was a good distance from the victim, as well as his cell phone…
But the point still remains that no witness saw him fire, only the police who shot him did, which seems strange. Just because he was "a person of interest", on parole, etc. is no excuse for letting police be judge, jury, and executioner.
What? Having your gun drawn in this situation is so legal I can't believe you would even say that. Sorry, no one with half a brain walks up to the kid who was just willing to kill them. If that's what you want from cops, you're going to find yourself in a world without policemen. But then I guess you'd start complaining about how the government never stops crime…
Anyone that runs and fires a gun at policemen deserves death.
Murder is not legal. That was clearly murder under color of law. Sickening that anyone defends it. It is the worst kind of crime in the world. No one is safe as long as this is allowed to continue.
Agreed, witness' say he didn't shoot. That seems pretty straight forward, unless all of them are lying because…? Shot 10 times folks – what I want to see is if the coroner examinations shows every one of the bullet wounds to have been from behind… as he was sprinting away. Why would you need to shoot someone 10 times, and then delay getting them help? To make sure they don't talk.
I also would like to know if the police shooters have been in military service, in war, and if they are unstable.
Yes he had a gun, and was a suspect in Washington. Yes, none of the witness' say he shot at police.
Did the police know his record when they shot him 10 times in the back? You koldobika2020 are a victim too – of news media – all of these facts are coming out post-killing to help people feel like it was justified. Letting police get away with this is a dangerous road that allows them to kill first and figure out how to justify later.
Look at some recent videos, the gun is silver on the ground beyond the dying 19 year old. Doesn't mean he was shooting it though.
"IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD"……you just said a mouthful. You just summed up the feeling of the police/overseers toward the community.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iROqCnPbxow
The gun can be seen at second 14/15 pretty clearly on the ground, far from the suspect, as was his cell phone – both apparently picked up at the scene.
And yet still, even if he had a gun, witness' say he didn't shoot…
So, when you are wanted/suspect in crimes, and you have a gun on you, then it is ok for police to shoot you 10 times in the back as you run away from them? They can be judge and executioner? Don't let the media fool you, I doubt these cops knew who this guy was when they whot him, but were glad to find out that he had a record afterwards.
It is claimed to have been present on his right hand. And he was left handed (just kidding?). They also say however that the gunpowder residue could also have been on his hand just from touching a gun that had been fired, not that he had to fire it right then.
http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/07/kenne…
The need for registration, etc is a law so that you can be traced to the use of a firearm. This will work both for you and against you as our militaristic country holds guns to innocent people in protest.
There was no assumed criminality. He ran because he knew he was on parole in another state and was carrying a gun. He ran, shot at the police and got shot. PERIOD.
You shoot at the police, you get shot at. it's a pretty simple cycle and you know it won't go any other way. So next time, step down from your pedestal and take a grammar class, no one can understand your last sentence of gibberish..
I am not upset that they shot him, after all he did runaway and it wasn't for nothing. However I don't see how he is just left in the ground to bleed out and no one comes to his aid. If someone cover the wound to make it stop bleeding he might of survived. They just left him there like an animal.
Why shoot someone 10 times in the back? He had a gun (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iROqCnPbxow), witness' say he did not shoot at police, gun residue says he at least touched a fired gun (http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/07/kenneth_harding_had_gunshot_re.php), but he could have shot it earlier.
I'm not convinced he shot at police, but how will we know the truth?
It won't be your kid next when you start teaching them not to pull weapons on the police. Maybe if you stopped acting like the victim and started taking responsibility for your actions, your kids would catch on and not pull guns on cops.
How about you take your own advice and learn the facts. The kid had gun residue on his hands, meaning he'd shot a gun recently. He wasn't killed over a muni transfer, he was killed because he ran from the cops instead of paying a fine. He ran because he knew his past and whether or not the police at the scene knew this info (which they didn't, not like he gave them a chance to run a background check on him first) and he knew that he'd be arrested for parole violation as well as illegally carrying an unregistered handgun in SF.
This entire "Dying over a transfer" news is such bullshit. HE DIED FOR SHOOTING AT A COP WHO RETURNED FIRE BECAUSE THE COP DECIDED HE DID NOT WANT TO DIE OR RISK OTHERS IN THE AREA BEING INJURED. You can't accept that? Grow up and realize this isn't the past.
He had a gun, but did he shoot it? Residue test says… maybe. http://blogs.sfweekly.com/thesnitch/2011/07/kenne…
Of course, who did the residue test? The same police who need evidence to justify a killing. I don't support this guy or the crimes he may have committed, but I'd rather see him in court than shot 10 times in the back.
Coonson,
In my experience people who use the term "nigger neighborhood" demonstrate a lack of equality in their discernment.
Where are the protest over the citizens killing each other. Where was the outrage when I a kind gental person who will go out of my way to help anyone who askes was mugged by a young black guy who was wearing about a $400 designer peacoat $200 plus jeans and beautiful perfect formed dreads (not cheap). this guy was indited by a jury of his peers of the crime of killing a woman and her unborn child. People running from the ungodly things they have done in the past and could cost them their freedom for life will do anything to escape including killing young social activist who seek to make the world a much better place.
Hey folks, this guy is suspected of murdering a pregnant black woman in Seattle and had power burns on his hands. This is a guy you should be glad is off the streets.
It's pretty simple to figure out…. don't commit a crime and the police probably aren't gonna mess with you… they asked him a question… he ran… he shot at the cops… the cops shot back. You better believe if you shoot at me… you're gonna have 10 times as many rounds coming right back at you…
he was a convicted rapist. our world is better off without him.
Get real. That doesn't cut it man. Don't run? What kind of stupid stuff is that. Spoken like someone really
out of touch.
Irrelevant question: The suspect is reported to have shot at officers before they returned fire.
Well, now we know. Harding had gun powder residue on his right hand. He didn't die for a transfer ticket he died because he lost a gun fight with police, which he likely started.
Cite: http://www.ktvu.com/news/28602692/detail.html
Augustine you are the sensationalist. The Seattle PD wanted him for questioning but could not confirm that he was the shooter. Even if he was the shooter. Do we want to gun down people in the streets rather than take them to court.
By the way he is not a martyr. He's just dead. Augustine you should really take a step back. Seems they found residue but this was handled very badly. It was a military style takedown. We need to retrain our police to not use military type tactics, and yes this could put them in jeopardy but that's the job.
Oh, you are right. I am wrong. They should have shot him a couple more times for good measure. Asshole deserved to die like that. I hope his mother gets to see the video. How she could raise such a messed up kid.
Satisfied?
Yea, I heard. I believe he did shoot at them but I also believe this could have been avoided.
A$$ WIPE I WASN'T Talking to U GO BAck to your Fairy CAVE , Boy
If you haven't figured it out I am being grossly sarcastic to make a point. The man was a human being, and he might not have been a good human being, but he was a human being, and if we loose sight of this and get wrapped up in the media's muckraking of his life. Then we loose track of the issue.
It is my humble opinion that police did not have to kill him, but it seems that the police are getting out of control. They are not the only ones, but they are armed and trained in military tactics. These tactics are not good for public safety. Say what you will about Kenneth Harding but the issue is larger than his death. Though his death I reckon will be soon forgotten. Leaving us with this problem.
WOW. You guys are insane. This "kid" was wanted for the murder of a pregnant women last week in Seattle. He was a 19 year old parolee/felon for a King COunty Sex offense. He was carrying an illegal gun (which already breaks a plethora of laws considering hes a felon/parolee). He ran from police and started firing at them which supporting witness statements and the police officers were completely justified in shooting right back at this "kid" since he had already put the entire street at risk with flying bullets.
The world didn't lose anybody special, and this was 100% completely justifiable homicide.
Lets see how all you morons spin this and make him the "innocent victim" of a shooting. Oscar Grant was an innocent victim, this guy is a wanted murder/parolee/felon/sex offender willing to start a gun fight with police in broad daylight in the middle of the street endangering all you idiots and you want to protest his death?
I'll go back to my fairy cave when you finish middle school.
You are wrong. You watch too much TV. The police's job is to remove threats. If someone starts shooting the gun in public, their job is to REMOVE THE THREAT (whether to the cops or bystanders) immediately. That means unloading the pistol into the chest, make sure that perp does not fire another shot. The cops are not required to aim for the legs, disarm, or "wing" the perp to detain them – few are that good with a gun (and most cops rarely, if ever, fire their pistol in the line of duty). The perp chose a shoot out when he fired the gun, and that is how he fell.
Police are not your mommy, they are hear to protect you from others, not your self.. If you are the threat, you will be removed, as efficiently and quickly as possible. My advice, don't shoot at police.
That's just shameful… It breaks my heart. Just shameful. That poor young man should be alive.
I wish the cops had turned around and shot more of Bayview filth. The subhuman scum that live there need to be driven out of our city now!
Dude, only Nazis call people subhuman. What's wrong with you?
You people are as ignorant as the scumbag that got rightfully shot. He killed a pregnant woman, was a pimp, a convicted fellon, and shot at the police… What did you expect would be the result of his pathetic existence? The person who wrote this article is uneducated and a racist themselves. Most of you responding are lost and should consider moving away if you don’t like it. Or, enroll in school, and check back in ater the decade it takes you to finish.
Sincerely yours,
A Happy San Franciscan
There is a cop walking around near the beginning of that video, behind the chained off area – just where the gun was later videotaped as 'proof' that Harding was armed. If the gun had been Harding's, why didn't the officer find it then? And Harding having gunshot residue on his hands is not proof that he shot that gun just moments before, but only that he had shot a gun sometime recently. Harding may have been guilty of many things, but I don't think he deserved to die like that.
WRONG. Factually, wrong. The police had been on scene for many minutes, pointing their guns at a dying man, before somebody picked up a gun (allegedly – it happens off camera, if it happened at all). Again, whatever he was guilty of, the police had no foreknowledge that would justify them becoming Jury, Judge and Executioner. He was, at that moment, just a running Black Man.
Well said
his comment was not racist at all, your ignorance is fucking nauseating.
I am tired of all you dumbass black people making me look bad,
always trying to fight authority for the sake of fighting authority.
fucking disgrace.
well thats what happens when you run.
take notes.
hhaha
dueces natalie213 real talk, mah brothers n sistrs gootta recognize, they "pigs" iz looking out 4 u, unless ur one the rapist murderer gangbangin drug dealers, in which case go head an hate but u knew the game b4 u gamed truth!
You're really not smart at all. "He says, "Typical black crowd…" how is that not racist? What is a "typical black crowd"? There were many lynching parties of all white folks, but it would sound ridiculous for me to say a "typical white crowd." I'm sorry you don't know what racism is. Back to school.
No you are wrong. To serve and protect.. Not shoot and taser at any given opportunity.
Here's the problem with your rationale.. The police had no clue he was wanted for murder, yet they still shot the man down over a $2 transfer.. That's the problem, here, that the police are way too eager to use deadly force, for anything, and everything.. Nevermind the fact that they… Pardon the southern expression… Schitt in a swinging jug.. lol..
Guess what…HE SHOT HIMSELF.
He had a gun. He shot HIMSELF with it.
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/theblotter/…
HE SHOT HIMSELF. Guess he did have a gun. But the mainstream media is just fabricating this, right? This article was a glaring example of irresponsible journalism…and the reality of the situation proves it!
He did not shoot at a cop. I'm the one who should be tired of the BS. You are probably a patriotic American running around waving a flag and extolling the virtues of the constitution of the U.S. But then, hey, extra-judicial execution by the police? NO PROBLEM. Wtf is wrong with you? Where you allow the police to be repressive and murderous, none of us are safe. I won't even reach for my wallet if a cop pulls me over because they are so quick to kill.
I ended up posting here, as I am not sure how to post to everyone. I agree that this kid was wanted in suspicion of other crimes, very well could have been him. the point that bothers me is that a) they didn't know who he was when they shot him to death b) even if he did have a gun, did they have to KILL him as he ran away. What ever happened to the concept of slowing down a so-called criminal (not saying he is innocent. I don't know that part) but what is so horrid about shooting his leg so he can't run, if he had a gun, of course. 10 bullets in the back is not an excuse for anything short of twenty men running at cops with shotguns. I don't know.
I don't live in the Bay anymore, but it is reminiscent of the young man shot to death at Bart on New Years Eve…Oscar Grant……..
I agree too. Even if he was GUILTY for murder, running cause he had no transfer and guity of murder doesn't mean you shoot him 10 times in the back. There is no excuse, guilty or not. They don't need to KILL someone to detail them for questioning. They are just using that BS to cover their butts, and I am sure they are lucky it is there. Then people can say, "oh, he was a convicted murdered. Doesn't matter". Well, maybe he was, the cops reaction to this was not reasonable. Period. You don't shoot someone to death for being a suspect, or even having a gun. Sorry…then shoot them in the back. Ridiculous. I guess they will never know if he was innocent or guilty of the other crimes.
I agree with you Natalie. Murder is murder no matter how you want to spin it. Cops are trained in how to disable an arm if someone has a gun so that they don't have to kill people to capture them. with all of the cops there, you think any of them could have shot his arm with the so called gun…
Cops aren't snipers. They can't pick out a body part to shoot. They're trained to hit center mass which is the biggest target of the body.
If you were not trained, you would actually pose more of a threat to yourself and those around you. If you're spraying bullets indiscriminately, an innocent is bound to be hit.
I agree with everything you have said thus far. This is a very irresponsible "newspaper". And I think the guy was a slimeball, etc. etc. However, I do have to wonder why it took three days for the police to find a second gun in his pocket. Think about it. First there is apparently NO gun because he dropped it and someone took it. If they had found a gun on him (and they would have patted him down for weapons on the scene regardless of his condition) why even look for the "other gun"? If I were working for this crap publication, I'd start by getting a police report and trying to find inconsistencies. Who was the person who found the first gun and turned it over to police? Who was the person who found the second gun? WHEN was each gun recovered? Who are these guns registered to? Go talk to those people. Then bring it all back to the police to explain why it took three days for them to get this story out. THEN you will have a story. But it might not be believable, even if true, because you have lost all credibility with these trash articles.
How come a Black man has to be so terrorized that he feels that he has to run for not having a transfer? HAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHA, that had to be a joke right? He is responsible for running from the police regardless of what it was for, people who arent guilty don't run from the police, PERIOD. You fucking morons! It is really pathetic black people still have to use race as an excuse for anything and everything they can. This is the exact reason people like the "victim" never progress out their worthless criminal lifestyle. I love how everyone wants the world to be sorry for a career criminal white or black who brandished a gun at a police officer getting shot. Well us people, you know the ones with a brain know he got just what any CRIMINAL (black, yellow, white, or green) with a gun pointed at police would get and that is SHOT. Have some self respect and quit using your race as an excuse to be a piece of shit. And those of you who aren't a piece of shit stand up and speak your mind against this trash. Let them know you aren't going to tolerate them embarrassing you and your people any longer.
You're a fucking moron. Let's see him shoot at you and see if you feel the same way.
Bleeding heart prick.
No it wasn't.
There is no sake of argument. He did. Gunpowder residue was found on his hands.
And as the above to Vito- let's put a gun in your fucking hands while some fleeing man fires wildly at you and your family.
See how you react.
They didn't find a second gun in his pocket. They found a bullet matching the one found in his head in his pocket.
You might consider looking in the mirror the next time you think of accusing others of being 'morons,' dude or would that be dudette in your case, hate-monger? And right, what makes you so certain? Were you there? Nah, racists need not be present, do they, when they have SF gestapo to do there murders for them, right pal?
OFF THE PIGS!
Uh, dick, I mean Yellowknife: the poppimple510 video above is a doctored video. This has been proven here: https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=101503226… and here in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AmT4lG_tYK8.
In the video above:
It has NOT been established that he opened fire or even had a gun. ALL witnesses say he didn't have a gun. Police are now saying that they don't have the alleged gun after all. If u look here from 0:36-0:45&then from 2:15-2:38, u see police scanning w/a clear view of the area that the gun was SUPPOSEDLY in. THIS vid happens minutes b4 the other vid. ALSO@1:58,u see a plain clothes cop going over the chain to the area they say the gun was in. IF THERE WAS A GUN, HE'D HAVE PICKED IT UP!
That's true. Cops are well-trained killers.
Thanks for your opinion, Fascist1.
Correction DON'T QUalify to be a human
Your son is perfect, yes? Is it okay with you if we give him a field execution if he commits an infraction?
So, you favor making "running from the police" a capital crime, one that can be tried and judged without a trial or judge?
You are so obviously full of it. You are nothing but a sheep, and you don't even truly believe your own bleating.
"Rape someone, go to jail, get off on good behavior, back on the streets and rape another person."
If you actually had evidence of this happening, it would strengthen your case. Of course, it is obvious to anyone who has even a modicum of knowledge about the justice system in this state that you don't have the slightest clue what you are talking about. You are nothing but a scared, bitter person. I pity you.
"Watch some of those 'lockdown' shows and you can see it first hand"
You probably think that Survivor was an accurate depiction of people trying to survive on an island, too.
"Would we still be calling the cops pigs? I'm gonna go ahead and say no."
I would. Those cops had no way of knowing any of that information at the time, so it is irrelevant in determining the validity of the shooting.
My beef has nothing to do with any of that. I saw a helpless person bleeding out on the street, and a bunch of cops standing around waving guns instead of rendering emergency aid to stop bleeding. I am seeing more and more of this "let him bleed out" attitude in these police shooting videos. We know a lot of cops are cross-trained as EMTs — why are they letting him bleed out instead of giving him medical attention?
I personally don't believe there is such thing as a "completely justifiable homicide" but you seem like you support the death penalty so following this law along with other US laws regarding the rights and wrongs of homicide, a justifiable homicide is one that is tried in court and deemed justifiable by multiple appointed persons. This homicide has not been not tried in favor of the police so therefore it shouldn't be looked at as a justifiable homicide. Please try to remember your humanity when you think thoughts like these. A life is a life and should be held sacred and treated with respect. It's easy to judge anything one way, even so when you are given limited information. I prefer not to jump to any one conclusion on this case until I can say without a doubt that I know the whole story, not just the tales told by two opposing sides wanting personal justification. If only this newspaper wasn't so blatantly biased…
bavo the mess contenues bs lives