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CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years

September 22, 2009

A study conducted by the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) has cast doubt over Israel’s survival beyond the next 20 years.

Neturei Karta, an organization of anti-Zionist rabbis from Munsey, New York, traveled with the Viva Palestina caravan, along with Cynthia McKinney and M1 of dead prez. During their 24 hours in Gaza, Rabbi David Weissman said during a press conference with Gazan Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh that Jews, Christians and Muslims had coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for centuries prior to the birth of Zionism. He asked the people of Gaza to join him in praying for the peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel. – Photo: Courtesy of Cynthia McKinney
Neturei Karta, an organization of anti-Zionist rabbis from Munsey, New York, traveled with the Viva Palestina caravan, along with Cynthia McKinney and M1 of dead prez. During their 24 hours in Gaza, Rabbi David Weissman said during a press conference with Gazan Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh that Jews, Christians and Muslims had coexisted peacefully in Muslim countries for centuries prior to the birth of Zionism. He asked the people of Gaza to join him in praying for the peaceful dismantlement of the state of Israel. – Photo: Courtesy of Cynthia McKinney
The CIA report predicts “an inexorable movement away from a two-state to a one-state solution as the most viable model based on democratic principles of full equality that sheds the looming specter of colonial apartheid while allowing for the return of the 1947-1948 and 1967 refugees. The latter being the precondition for sustainable peace in the region.”

The study, which has been made available only to a certain number of individuals, further forecasts the return of all Palestinian refugees to the occupied territories, and the exodus of 2 million Israelis – who would move to the U.S. in the next 15 years.

“There are over 500,000 Israelis with American passports and more than 300,000 living in the area of just California,” international lawyer Franklin Lamb said in an interview with Press TV on Friday, adding that those who do not have an American or Western passport have already applied for them.

“So I think the handwriting at least among the public in Israel is on the wall … [which] suggests history will reject the colonial enterprise sooner or later,” Lamb stressed.

He said the CIA, in its report, alludes to the unexpectedly quick fall of the apartheid government in South Africa and recalls the disintegration of the Soviet Union in the early 1990s, suggesting the end to the dream of an “Israeli land” would happen “way sooner” than later.

The study further predicts the return of over 1.5 million Israelis to Russia and other parts of Europe, and denotes a decline in Israeli births compared to a rise in the Palestinian population.

Lamb said, given the Israeli conduct toward the Palestinians and the Gaza Strip in particular, the American public – which has been voicing its protest against Tel Aviv’s measures in the last 25 years – may not “take it any more.”

Some members of the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee have been informed of the report.

Editor’s note: Although Press TV first published this story on March 13, 2009, it was re-circulated Sept. 20 by the World View News Service. On Sept. 21, Jeff Gates wrote “Will Israel fall in five years?” (see below) and submitted it for publication to Intifada-Palestine.com. Franklin Lamb, Ph.D., the source for the Press TV story above, told the Bay View on Sept. 21 that he continues to stand by the story. He said he was referring to the CIA report when he wrote in “AIPAC Sends in the Clowns” (Counterpunch, Aug. 19, 2009): “(House Majority Leader Steny) Hoyer refused comment on Kadema leader Tzipi Livni’s ‘leak’ of part of last year’s CIA study that Hoyer helped AIPAC bury on Capitol Hill. Appearing to quote from the now withdrawn ‘study,’ Livni declared in a former Palestinian village, now renamed Tirat Hacarmel: “‘I see the despair of many Israelis. Hundreds of thousands see what is happening and arrange for a foreign passport, send their children to study abroad and even buy a house overseas.’” (Livni’s quote appears in Israel’s YNet News Aug. 12, 2009.) Lamb, who writes from Beirut, Lebanon, where he is director of Americans Concerned for Middle East Peace and acting chair of the Sabra-Shatila Memorial Scholarship Program Laptop Initiative, Shatila Palestinian Refugee Camp, says AIPAC, Hoyer and the U.S. Senate Intelligence Committee all have copies of the CIA report. Lamb can be reached at fplamb@sabrashatila.org.

Will Israel fall in five years?

by Jeff Gates

“The undersigned therefore take this means of publicly presenting a few salient facts concerning Begin and his party; and of urging all concerned not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.” – Albert Einstein, signatory, Letters to the Editor, New York Times, Dec. 4, 1948

Online reports of a study by the U.S. Central Intelligence Agency cast doubt over the survival of Israel beyond the next two decades. Regardless of the validity of the report, with what is now known about the costs in blood and treasure that the U.S.-Israeli relationship has imposed on the U.S., its key ally, Israel could fall within five years.

For more than six decades, American support for Israel has relied on the ability of pro-Israelis to dominate U.S. media, enabling Tel Aviv to put a positive spin on even its most extreme behavior, including its recent massacre in Gaza. With access to online news coverage, that Zionist bias is becoming apparent and the real facts transparent.

Though Americans seldom show a strong interest in foreign affairs, that too is changing. While few of them grasp the subtleties of one-state versus two-state proposals, many have seen online the impact of a murderous Israeli assault on Palestinian civilians that was timed between Christmas and the inauguration of Barack Obama.

The leaders of the 9-11 Commission acknowledged that its members would not allow testimony on the impetus for that attack. Yet the report confirmed that the key motivation was the U.S.-Israeli relationship. With access to online news, more Americans are asking why they are forced to support a colonial Apartheid government.

With the election of yet another extremist Israeli government led by yet another right-wing Likud Party stalwart, it’s clear that Tel Aviv intends to preclude peace by continuing to build more settlements. With that stance, Israel not only pushed Barack Obama into a corner, it also forced U.S. national security to make a key strategic decision: Is Israel a credible partner for peace? By any criteria, the answer must be a resounding “No.”

That inescapable conclusion leaves Americans with few options. After all, the U.S. is largely responsible for the legitimacy granted this extremist enclave in May 1948 when Harry Truman, a Christian-Zionist president, extended nation-state recognition. He did so over the strenuous objections of Secretary of State George Marshall, the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the fledgling CIA and the bulk of the U.S. diplomatic corps.

By December 1948, a distinguished contingent of Jewish scientists and intellectuals warned in The New York Times that those leading the effort to establish a Jewish state bear “the unmistakable stamp of a Fascist party.” Albert Einstein joined concerned Jews who cautioned Americans “not to support this latest manifestation of fascism.”

Only in the past few weeks has the momentum emerged to subject Israel to the same external pressures that were brought to bear against Apartheid South Africa. After more than six decades of consistent behavior – and clear evidence of no intent to change – activists coalesced around the need to boycott Israeli exports, divest from Israeli firms and impose sanctions against Israel akin to those it seeks against others.

The focal point for peace in the Middle East should not be those nations that do not have nuclear weapons but the one nation that does. Absent external pressure, Israeli behavior will not change. Absent pressure – and likely force – applied by the U.S. as the nation that has long enabled this behavior, Colonial Zionism will continue to pose a threat to peace. Occupying powers are not known to voluntarily relinquish lands they occupy. Likewise for their readiness to surrender nuclear arms.

An end to Jewish fascism?

The key issue need no longer be a subject of endless debate. There must be a one-state solution consistent with democratic principles of full equality. Informed Americans are no longer willing to support a theocratic state in which full citizenship is limited to those deemed “Jewish” (whatever that means). If local birth rates suggest an eventual end to the “Jewish state,” then so be it. Why wait two decades when this nightmare can be drawn to a close in less than five years?

Forget about a return to pre-1967 borders; instead return to pre-1948 borders. Designate Jerusalem an international city under U.N. protection and dispatch multi-national forces to maintain peace. Palestinians should have a right of return, including the ability to recover properties from which they fled under an assault by Jewish terrorists. If Colonial Zionists (aka settlers) want compensation for “their” property, let them seek restitution from the Diaspora that encouraged their unlawful occupation.

Those who consider themselves “Jewish” can remain as part of an inclusive democracy. Or they can depart. Americans must consider how many of these extremists it wants to welcome to a nation already straining under an immigration burden. A reported 500,000 Israelis hold U.S. passports. With more than 300,000 dual citizens residing in California alone, that state may require a referendum on just how many Zionists it wishes to receive. Likewise for Russia from which many “Jews” fled, including some 300,000 Russian émigrés who support the Likud Party but have yet to be certified as Jewish.

Zionists originally saw Argentina and Uganda as desirable venues to establish their enterprise. They may wish to apply there for resettlement. The question of why Palestinians (or Californians) should bear the cost of a problem created by Europeans six decades ago is one that Tel Aviv has yet to answer except by citing ancient claims that it insists should take precedence over two millennia of Palestinian residence.

By withdrawing Israel’s status as a legitimate “state,” those Jews long appalled by the behavior of this extremist enclave can no longer be portrayed as guilty by association. That long overdue shift in status is certain to benefit the broader Jewish community. By shutting down Israel’s nuclear arms program and destroying its nuclear arsenal, the world can be spared the key impetus now driving a nuclear arms race in the region.

Unless pro-Israelis can create another crisis by inducing an invasion of Iran (or a race war), Americans will soon realize that only one “state” had the means, motivation, opportunity and stable nation-state intelligence required to fix the intelligence that led the U.S. to invade Iraq consistent with the expansionist goals of Colonial Zionism.

Intelligence now working its way to transparency will soon confirm that, but for Zionists within the U.S. government, 9-11 could have been prevented and war in Iraq avoided. To date, this extremism has been enabled by a series of weak U.S. presidents. For the U.S. to restore its credibility requires that it not only lead the effort to shut down the Zionist enterprise but that it also share responsibility for its behavior to date.

Jeff Gates is author of “Guilt by Association,” “Democracy at Risk” and “The Ownership Solution.” Former counsel to the U.S. Senate Committee on Finance, he has served as a policy consultant to 35 governments worldwide. See www.criminalstate.com.

43 thoughts on “CIA report: Israel will fall in 20 years

  1. Alain

    IT has become extremely evident that europeans and even some americans are finally waking up to the atrocities of the terrorist state which should have never existed in the first place.
    A few days ago i read an article that states that the divestement from israel campaign is a resouding success all over europe and even canada and some parts of the US.
    The snowball is growing, israel is going down.

    Reply
  2. David R. Evans

    The racist apartheid state of Israel has been ‘outed’ in Europe and the rest of the world for decades. Our compromised, propagandizing media and AIPAC have blinded us in the US to this truth, but the veil is finally wearing thin. Here is how our media hasn’t worked until recently:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565#

    and here is how our legislators are still complying with Zionist’s commands:

    http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2009/09/02/the-best-congress-aipac-can-buy/

    Reply
  3. lummysdad

    What drugs are the CIA taking? Israel will use their arsenal of nuclear weapons before that happens. Dave, you must be taking the same drugs. You believe Israel is racist but the Arabs are not. Look at the crap that is being taught to the Arab children.
    And as for stealing land from the Mexicans??? They stole it from the Indians. The Spanish were a lot more brutal than the English.

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  4. Ed Green

    This sounds more like the Arab nazi cia then the American cia, lol, I dont think Israel is going anywhere, their is no more suicide bombing since they built the fence. there are no more kidnappings since the war with Hizbolla and Hamas. there are more people vacationing in Israel then ever befor becausee of the fence and the smashing of terror groups.

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  5. Gervais

    Ed Green,

    The reason there are no more “suicide bombings” is because in 2006 Hamas decided that such acts were counterproductive and reflected negatively on the party’s legitimacy seeing as they were elected in a free and open election in 2006. President Jimmy Carter with other delegations was there monitoring the elections.

    So all in all, the so called “fence” – it’s actually a 24 foot concrete wall – is aimed at grabbing more land from Palestinians and preventing them from farming their land or traveling through short and direct routes. The aim is to make life so miserable that the Palestinians will pick up and leave to Jordan or other countries.

    But, that will NEVER happen. As for “there are more people vacationing than ever”. Well, according to official figures from the Ministry of Tourism the numbers of visitors has dropped significantly in recent years.

    PS: Given that you love Israel so much, I sure hope that you live there, work there and vote there.

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  6. David R. Evans

    lummysdad, I suggest that you see this photo and read the accompanying story:

    http://card.wordpress.com/2006/07/19/shocking-images-of-gifts-from-israeli-children-the-indoctrination-of-israeli-children/

    Israel is a racist, apartheid state, and an ethnocracy, not a democracy:

    http://www.counterpunch.org/cook01252003.html

    Any animosity by Arabs towards Israel is because Israel was dumped in their neighborhood like a mad, rampaging elephant, and Israel has been killing innocent people, terrorizing them and stealing their lands for decades. Let’s stay on topic. My comment about Mexico and the theft of Mexican lands by the US was in response to the racist remark by Dan Talmor at the beginning of this thread.

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  7. Mark E. Smith

    Bullpuckey! I lived in Afghanistan for five years back in the early ’70s, and everything I’d been taught about Moslems turned out to be wrong. They are some of the most hospitable people on earth, they respect other religions (People of the Book, whichever book that may be), and it is Christianity that has tortured and killed to terrorize and force conversions (the Crusades). America is little more than a couple of centuries old. If we all went home to wherever we came from 1800 years ago, Turtle Island might be able to regrow its forests and become sustainable again.

    I’ve been in solidarity with immigrants’ rights, but suddenly I’m starting to rethink the whole thing. I don’t think my illegal settler brother (who converted from Conservative to Orthodox Judaism) and his wife (who converted from Christianity to Judaism) should be allowed to bring their Israeli-born seven kids “back” to a Brooklyn they’ve never known, and start teaching hate and intolerance. Our government has been supporting them with taxpayer money in Israel so that they could have housing benefits that most minorities in Brooklyn and elsewhere here in the U.S. could never dream of. Why did we pay for their big house in an illegal settlement when so many Americans are homeless? That was a form of economic coercion to encourage them to convert to Orthodox Judaism–in other words, it was a law regarding the establishment of a government-sponsored religion and completely unconstitutional.

    Let them learn the Golden Rule and start treating their Palestinian neighbors the same way that they want to be treated, so stop calling themselves Jews.

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  8. Ed Green

    Gervais: Your ps says it all, Am I a Jew lover? oh excuse me a Israel lover. I certainly feel I have more in common than countries that treat women well than like dirt (Saudi, Iran, Iraq, Syria, etc). the only thing Hamas decided upon was how to hide behind their civilians while being shot at and what is the safest place to hide while shooting off missils. Yes I will agree with you that part of the reason for the fence is to grab some land and seperate themselves from maniacs, the fence is made to be flexible and will be moved if a peace ever comes (dont hold your breath) to say that Hamas decided something democratically makes me laugh ,thanks for giving me a good belly laugh this morning. so life has never been more peacefull in Israel and that is why they will be their for a long time.
    By the way I live in Connecticut very peacefully , I dont have to worry about my neighbors from mass or ny or ri coming to connecticut blowing me up and that is what makes me sucure, I am thankfull that the only fence i had to build was for my dogs.
    Sorry Dan I know you wanted to keep this thread about Mexico but when I am attacked by someone I feel the need to respond.

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  9. Ed Green

    Any animosity by Arabs towards Israel is because Israel was dumped in their neighborhood like a mad, rampaging elephant, and Israel has been killing innocent people, terrorizing them and stealing their lands for decades. Let’s stay on topic. My comment about Mexico and the theft of Mexican lands by the US was in response to the racist remark by Dan Talmor at the beginning of this thread.

    Sorry I had to separate myself from the upper paragraph by more then one tab or take a shower one of the two. Yes a few million concentration camp jews were dumped into Israel like a rampaging elephant? Oh I see you are one of these people who dont belileve the Holocaust happened, you thee kkk , skinheads, and amanajad of iragood company.
    Yes lets stay on topic and dismiss these evil , christain bloodsucking, heathen Jews- Riggggght

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  10. Mark E. Smith

    Ed Green writes, “I certainly feel I have more in common than countries that treat women well than like dirt….I live in Connecticut very peacefully.”

    Uh-huh. So you mistake difference for progress, huh? Some patriarchal countries prefer their females covered up and sequestered, and some prefer them with lots of flesh exposed and for sale on city street corners. That doesn’t mean one is treating females better than the other, they just have different preferences.

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  11. Ed Green

    Mark I like your hat you must live in a cold climate. I dont know if I want females Sequestered like juries, not do i want them wandering around like New York Hookers used to. I will take them just as they are today in the US, liberated, confident and able to work with and help Men make a better world. The Patriarchal countries seem to treat women poorly and that is a shame.

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  12. Alain

    Lummyisdad or whatever GET A CLUE before u start spreading what the jewish media taught you!! i am greek catholic lebanese and i live in the south ( far from the christian north or beirut or mount lebanon ) not once in my entire life living here have i felt awkward about my religion or felt that i have to hide it, quite the opposit actually, people take extra intrest in me sometimes( especially the opposite sec ( (: ); i’ve never felt threaten even though i belong to a right wing christian party that fought muslims during the civil war and i’m open about it
    This whole christian vs muslim thing is a JEWISH creation meant to distract IDIOTS from the real problem i.e ISRAEL.

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  13. Mark E. Smith

    Ed Green, does the fact that females are now five percent of legislators, CEOs, tenured faculty, etc., (fifty percent of students at some universities, but that is a very recent development and it may take generations before those graduates gain enough seniority to make any substantial gains in the professions), earn 70% as much as males for the same work (although this is not mandated by law), and aren’t all hookers, mean that we’re not a patriarchal country?

    I suppose African-Americans have achieved equality here also?

    I’d like some of whatever you’re smoking. ;)

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  14. Mark E. Smith

    I lived in Afghanistan and I can assure you that Afghan males treated females with much more respect than we do. We send our drones to kill men, women, and children indiscriminately. If that’s equality, do you wonder why people resist our attempts to impose it by force? We are not and have never been equal opportunity employers, but we have always been, as any Native American can tell you, equal opportunity destroyers.

    The excuse for invading Afghanistan was that the Taliban were harboring bin Laden. But they had been harboring ben Laden when we sent them $43 million, just a few months before 9/11, when we knew he was there and he was on our terrorist list. If we invade countries that support terrorists, then we should invade the USA first. The real reason we’re there isn’t to liberate their women, it is to run an oil pipeline through for Rockefeller.

    Remember the Taliban-like modesty squads in Israel that beat up a female Canadian tourist who refused to sit in the back of the bus with the other women? I suppose Israel treats women better than Islamic countries do also? Sure, as long as they are totally obedient.

    Not all slavemasters were pure sadists. Most were more interested in exploiting their slaves for profit than in torturing them for amusement. Slaves didn’t always get beaten if they were hard-working, submissive, and cheerful. Only those who complained about being worked too hard or not being given enough to eat, got beaten for attempting to destroy the master’s self-image as a benevolent, caring person. Or for refusing his “affections.” And women who meekly sit in the back of the bus in Israel don’t get beaten either. Heil equality!

    There’s an old Sufi story, Ed, about a magician who was too cheap to hire a shepherd so he hypnotized his sheep into believing they were magicians to keep them from running away. That works much better than fences, guards, or dogs. As Harriet Tubman noted, you can’t free slaves when they don’t know that they’re slaves.

    The U.S. is a patriarchal country, Ed. Israel is a patriarchal country. The Islamic countries are also usually patriarchal countries, but Iraq was a secular country under Sadaam and became much worse for women after we invaded.

    You claim that females here in the US are, “…liberated, confident and able to work with and help Men make a better world.” Since when does stealing resources from Africa and South America make a better world? Since when does polluting the planet make a better world? I don’t know of ANYTHING the U.S. has done that wasn’t in the interests of private profits and that didn’t make a WORSE world rather than a better one.

    Did you capitalize the world “men” deliberately or accidentally, Ed?

    I’m choosing not to argue with the hate-freaks, Ed. I’m talking with you because you are right on in several respects and your deliberate ignorance is less than that of some others posting here. That’s an old picture of me. I’m a senior citizen and I’m still learning and I hope that you will continue learning also.

    Reply
  15. Ed Green

    Mark: Of course I understand that early Americans almost destroyed an entire Indian nation, treated them beyond horrible, and were one of the proponents to enacting slavery an abomination and shame upon this country (dont blame me I am a Jew, my ancestors were from russia and they were to busy hiding from the cossacks trying to kill them). If you go back into history you will find groups and nations who have tried to destroy everything in its way, unfortunately America was one of them no doubt about it.
    It is easy to bring up individual stories about Israeli abuse and Americans abusing their citizens (Bush doing nothing while people die in New Orleans) or Afghan abuse or Bosnia. The women I talk to in the US seem to be very happy and feel they are getting more power every day.
    Israel could be classified as a patriarchal country , I think of them more as a Military country out of necessity. Do Israeli soldiers kill innocents from time to time I think they do and I hope they are punished for it! Every country has evil people in it, I think the US is headed in the right direction now that Obama is President, we will see

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  16. Ed Green

    Mark: Of course I understand that early Americans almost destroyed an entire Indian nation, treated them beyond horrible, and were one of the proponents to enacting slavery an abomination and shame upon this country (dont blame me I am a Jew, my ancestors were from russia and they were to busy hiding from the cossacks trying to kill them). If you go back into history you will find groups and nations who have tried to destroy everything in its way, unfortunately America was one of them no doubt about it.
    It is easy to bring up individual stories about Israeli abuse and Americans abusing their citizens (Bush doing nothing while people die in New Orleans) or Afghan abuse or Bosnia. The women I talk to in the US seem to be very happy and feel they are getting more power every day.
    Israel could be classified as a patriarchal country , I think of them more as a Military country out of necessity. Do Israeli soldiers kill innocents from time to time I think they do and I hope they are punished for it! Every country has evil people in it, I think the US is headed in the right direction now that Obama is President, we will see

    Reply
    1. margherita nassar

      why do you call them Americans? They were Europians who were buying slaves from the other african tribes.

      Reply
  17. Gervais

    Ed Green,

    1. As someone who grew up in Israel, speaks the language and knows the history of the conflict inside out, has read dozens of books published by reputable Israeli scholars, I can tell you with 100% certainty that you are both uneducated on the conflict and brainwashed by the propaganda that you see on your TV in Connecticut. Yes, you read Ha’aretz, apparently. Fascinating.

    2. Go read president Jimmy Carter’s book on the conflict. You’ll learn so much and you’ll become a person worth debating with. While you’re at it, go on Amazon and buy a few books written by Tom Segev, Avi Shlaim, Benny Morris or Illan Pappe. They are all Jewish, all Israeli and are all teaching professors of history and political science.

    That’ll clue you in on the subject.

    3. Whatever notion you seem to have about women and equality in various countries should have no bearing on this conflict, let alone the culpability of the Israeli government. Do you think we live in a binary world? Go read up on the massacres – yes massacres – committed by Israeli militias against Palestinians – evidence that is well documented by Israeli Jewish historians. You really seem to think that you’re on the right side of morality simply because you support Israel against those “maniacs” as you put it in the occupied territories.

    I’ve got news for you, this isn’t an election for a democratic or a republican president where you HAVE to choose one over the other, or where you choose the “lesser of two evils”. In fact, people who are so detached from the conflict and have no idea what they’re talking about should avoid lecturing others. Your credibility has been tarnished.

    Surely, you must have attended highschool in New Haven or Hartford or whatever town you’re from. Did they teach about the American Revolution there? Did they teach you how the colonies rebelled against the British monarchy and fought for independence? If so, then you might reconsider your rhetoric regarding Palestinians being “maniacs” for resisting a brutal occupation. But, nevermind that, even the Geneva Convention clearly states that a people under occupation have the right to resist BY ANY MEANS NECESSARY. Go read it!

    3. “how to hide behind their civilians while being shot at and what is the safest place to hide while shooting off missils [sic].”

    Mark Regev is an Israeli government spokesperson. Whether you heard him say those things or not is immaterial as that worn out nonsense is peddled by many in the US media, including Blitzer, Cooper, Fox Noise etc. Regev, by the way, was born and raised in Australia. He then immigrated to Israel and became its propaganda mouthpiece. You’re not competing for his job, are you?

    The allegation that Palestinains and/or Hamas use civilians as human shields has never been proven by those who make the accusation. Hint: fuzzy black and white low resluotion videos on YouTube don’t count for much.

    In fact, the opposite has been proven. Israeli soldiers have come out and said that the army was using Palestinian civilians as shields during the attack on Gaza. It’s in the Israeli press, I’m sure you know how to use Google. If the solder’s words aren’t good enough for you, then read the report published by Goldstone, a Jewish judge, head of a UN commission that investigated Israeli war crimes Israel in Gaza.

    4. Finally, the Balfour declaration was drafted and signed by Lord Balfour. Another hint: He was British. Britain at the time was imperializing the Middle East. When they were approached by Zionist movement leaders, the British agreed to give Jews a “home” in Palestine. The Palestinians were never asked or consulted. That decision was imposed on them by someone who didn’t even own the land to begin with.

    Coincidentally, Balfour was as inconsiderate to the Irish at the time – see Northern Ireland conflict – as he was to the Palestinians.

    As for your neighbors and their dogs or whatever analogy you conjured, British census records dating back to 1850 show that there were about 800,000 Muslims/Christians living in Palestine and less than 70,000 Jews.

    Therefore, it’s quite ludicrous for you to imply that the Palestinians are the ones encroaching on Israelis. When in fact the opposite is true.

    Similarly, one of the justifications for the creation of Israel was the Holocaust during WWII. Last I checked, that event took place in Germany and was carried out by Nazis. Why is it that the Palestinians have to pay the price for Germany’s (and Europe’s) crimes and mistakes?

    Finally, Jews, Muslims and Christians lived just fine in Palestine, they all spoke Arabic and live peacefully as nextdoor neighbors. Tensions didn’t grow until Zionism – an ideology born in Eastern Europe at the turn of the century – came about and sought to enforce its own politics on the native population.

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  18. Ed Green

    Gervais, Gervais, Gervais oy gavalt where to start? Jimmy Carter? The man screwed up royally trying to get our guys out of Iran,if he asked Israel to do it they would have been out pronto instead he messed up and we ended up with Regan as president who promptly screwed up our economy and wall st mess was the culmanation! No I have no respect for Jimmy Carter both myself and Hunter Thompson were fooled badly by that dumb smile.
    I am not sure I trust someone who touts his credentials like you do my friend, bless you if you do and know half the things you claim you do.
    Of course we know about the massacre in Lebanon when Israel let the Christians in to slaughter the Palestinians, as i said in one of my other rants if these things can be proven then they need to pay the harshest peenalty, war is very tough, both sides need to work on keeping the monster back.
    What is the big deal that Regev comes from Austrailia? Huh?
    the Balfour declaration did nothing for the Jews, except maybe piss off the Arabs.I am not here to debate who lived in the middle east first. Lets give the land to the cave men . Jews have lived there for thousands of years and they felt that after the Holocaust it might be a nice place to settle since many believed in the Bible and just wanted to go home and recover after a few centuries of being slaughtered. the world decided that after thousands of years of slaughter they would give them land the size of Connecticut, The rest as they say is history.
    What bothers me is here you have the Palestinians obviously suffering and you have their very rich Arab brethrin and they wont lift a finger to help them, that my friend is the real tragedy. When all is said and done they wont let them onto their land, they wont give them money for schools and education or for god sake to feed their family. First the Arab states tried war when that did not work they decided to use the Palestinians as pawns, even I shed a tear over that. My God that your Arab brothers hate you so much or that they hate Jews so much that they would use their brothers as pawns-it freaks me out!
    When all is said and done I still hope peace comes to the Middle East, I hope they can llive side by side in peace. I think the fanatics on both sides need to step aside and let the moderates get it going.

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  19. Mark E. Smith

    Okay, Ed, I take it back. You may not be educable.

    Do you think that Israel would allow Arab states to help Palestine? Why would they respect Arabs more than they respect Americans like Cynthia McKinney? Why should Palestinians go to other Arab countries?

    If I moved into your house, prevented you from going to work or feeding your family, prevented you from seeking medical help for your kids, and didn’t allow anyone to visit you, do you think you could learn to live in peace with me?

    How about if I know a poor homeless person who is suffering and I feel so sorry for them that I decide to give them your house?

    Study the Torah. We were slaveholders before we were slaves in Egypt. We engaged in andrapodismos, the patriarchal practice of conquering others by killing all adult males and enslaving the females and children long before the Greeks had a word for it.

    What goes around, comes around, Ed. I have relatives who died in the Holocaust, but how can it be possible for people who experienced a Holocaust to forget within a few short decades what it is like to be walled into a ghetto and treated like subhumans? What sympathy will there be for Jews the next time?

    Not only WILL Israel fall, but it MUST fall for there to be peace. Predatory capitalism itself is failing as more and more nations band together to resist U.S. hegemony. Is Connecticut the only state in the union that has a budget surplus, full employment, no bank or business failures, no home foreclosures, no homelessness problem, and a stable economy? If so, why doesn’t Connecticut take over the job of propping up Israel, because the rest of us can’t afford it any more–we can’t even afford our own bailouts. California, my own state, in attempting to cope with a massive budget deficit, has already made deep cuts in assistance to the elderly and in health care for needy children. How long do you think the millionaires in Congress can keep giving American tax money to everyone but Americans?

    I don’t care if God told them to do it or the devil made them do it, it is time that both Israel and the United States stopped their wars of aggression and illegal occupations and begin to abide by the Nuremberg Principles. Otherwise everything that Americans fought and died for in WWII will have been in vain.

    Personally, I’m an atheist. I figure that if there was an omnipotent God, he’d kill anyone he wanted killed and wouldn’t need to hire human hitmen to do his wet jobs for him. When a God who Commands, “Thou Shalt Not Kill,” tells people to go out and kill, anyone with half a brain would know the dude’s off his meds and get Him some help.

    Reply
  20. Gervais

    Sudenly you’re more calm and respectful in your post.

    I find it interesting that you went from using such divisive language in your descriptions to agreeing with me on several points. Are you that easily convinced, or did you know most of that beforehand, but chose to feign otherwise?

    Anyway, as for Mark Regev – the fox that he is, no different than the likes of Scott McClellan or Tony Snow in his spin – the mere fact that he immigrated to Israel, but then went on to aid and abet the government in its occupation of the Palestinians shows his real colors. It’s no different than the average Italian or French immigrant who comes to the US – barely speaks the local language – and proceeds to bulldoze an entire Native American reservation while claiming it to be the land of his ancestors.

    What family lineage do the likes of him and a thousand others have to a legitimate claim over land in the Middle East, let alone the holy-mucking-land is anyone’s guess. Palestinians have closer blood ties to Sephardi Jews than any schmuck out of Europe, Brooklyn or Melbourne.

    And if you want a solution to the conflict, then contact your senator and representative and have them support Obama’s call for settlement freeze.

    However, if you don’t give a flying hoot about Israel, then by all means let it continue on its current path of self-suicide. The bottom line is that it needs to be saved from itself.

    PS: While one can argue that Jimmy Carter wasn’t a great president, he managed to broker the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel. He knows what he’s talking about regarding that region. Don’t ridicule him because he’s telling the ugly truth. Instead of asking Israel to change for the better, you are actually helping it hide its ugly side. That’s not what’s needed right now. Think of Israel as a child that needs to be taught right from wrong.

    Reply
  21. David R. Evans

    lummysdad, Zionist have no rightful claim to other people’s land, yet they forced 700,000 people from their homes by terrorist acts, overran the boundaries ceded to them by the UN and have been killing innocent people and stealing evermore land since. http://lawrenceofcyberia.blogs.com/photos/maps/landloss.html

    All violence by Palestinians is subsequent to this fact. For a myriad of information, including the history of the region that you may be unaware of:

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

    And for one of the reasons that many of us are unaware:

    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6604775898578139565#

    You also may want to read some of the works of Dr. Shlomo Zand, Jewish Professor of History at Tel Aviv University, including this:

    http://www.care2.com/c2c/groups/disc.html?gpp=16285&pst=1333138

    Mark E. Smith’s thoughtful and provocative commentary is spot on regarding all issues he is posting about here.

    Reply
  22. morris

    Will you post one of these?

    Neturei Karta on Hamas, Nasrallah and Ahmadinijad

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PMXzEJjxKqA

    Homosexuality in our society and Judaism, Neturei Karta

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rKk3griwkpw

    about Neturei Karta, its origins & Jewish support

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tumT_kGb1bI

    Neturei Karta Rabbi Al Quds Day London Demo Sept 2009

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXfIVKGIEw8

    organ Harvesting and false flags Nekurtei Karta

    Reply
  23. Ed Green

    Gervais: I always try to be calm in my posting , just sometime I see something that bothers me and I spit it out. It is important not to be a fanatic on these things but try to think with a clear and rational mind, although emotions run deep and that can be hard at times.
    I still dont understand your problem with Regev, he seems to believe deeply in Israel, he may be misguided at times but I dont doubt his sincerity.
    You seem to have a deep mis trust out of anyone coming out of Austrailia or Europe, I guess that is an issue that you have to work out. For many years I really hated Germans for the Holocaust and other war attrocities, but I could see that they were genuinly sorry for what they and their parents did, so I let go of my hate, they are now a good friend of Israel.
    Is this a one way trip , just ocntact my senator and make Israel stop building settlements, unfortuantely the Arabs have not acceepted Israel as a country their,they dont want them their apparently it affects there Karma or something. Its all about give and take, yes freeze settlemennts but now what, the other side does not even recognize their right to live! that is why this has to be solved by moderates not extreamests. It cant be decided by the wacky settlers or theri cronies not can it be decided by Hamas or Hezbolla or suicide bombers or Admanjani and his Ayotalla buddies. Now is there a chance in hell that we are going to get all those moderates together-I doubt it. Again perhaps we look to Obama, but he is only one man and he is under fire by the loons on the right so that does impede his progress.
    One of the problems I have with Carter is that he interperts the Bible litteraly. It seems he would like every Jew to go back to the shepard days and he holds Israel to much higher standards then other countries and that is really in insult to Israel and condesending to other countries.

    Reply
  24. Ed Green

    Mark: Yes I think Israel would allow Arab countries to help their fellow Arabs if it did not include things like “right of return” or bombs or hateful propaganda and such. I read what you wrote several times and no where in there do you say why Arab countries wont help there brethren. Kripes wasnt it Saudi Arabia or maybe it wass Kuwaite that built an entire city and it is not even occupied yet. these governments have huge ammounts of money-but not for the palestinians-why because they can use them as pawns and help get Israel out of there, I dont agree with it but it is excellent strategy, it wont work in this country because many people in power can see right through it.
    I understand that you feel that Israel has turned harder over the years, but I see them acting with defence, I am sure it goes back to the Bible which says if someone hits you once then hit them 10 times back. It is a nightmare of a place to live, again when you are surrounded by people who want to kill you that is going to cause you to act with defensive measures that maybe we in America cannot understand (maybe if we did 9/11 whould not have happened)
    Yes I agree that America must give more to thier citizens and not to every country in the world, but maybe if we pulled troops out of Japan (what the hell do we have troops in Japan for) and other places where we spend millions and billions of dollars them we could give our people the proper health care they need and cut into poverty a bit
    The US will continue to give money to Israel because they see Israel as similar to them , also Israel has a very strong lobby and like the nra thosee guys are tough negotiators who will never quit. In the past the US was friends with Israel because Russia was friends with the Arabs. Now a days it is not so cut and clear, but I think the Us feels Israel is a pawn of theres (a rebellious one) and wants them to watch over the oil.
    But one thing Israel must nev er do is give up as you suggest. Right now they have a right wing group in there so there concern will be defense and settlements but that could change with elections. For centuries they were victims and I do not want to see them go back there again

    Reply
  25. Mark E. Smith

    There are a lot of Orthodox rabbis who do not recognize the right of the State of Israel to exist, but I don’t see anyone building a wall around them or bulldozing their homes.

    If you’d study the Torah, Ed, you’d learn that the Jews have not always been victims. We’ve also been predators. In fact, we were predators before we were victims. Does that give those we victimized the right to hit us back ten times? If so, then the Arabs are entirely within their rights.

    9/11 happened because the Project for a New American Century wanted “a new Pearl Harbor” to get public support for an invasion of Iraq because Rockefeller wanted to control Iraqi oil, so they pulled out the old Northwoods Plan, which was originally intended as a false flag operation to gain public support for an invasion of Cuba, but had been vetoed by President Kennedy. The plan, to pretend to hijack a civilian airliner was only possible if the entire air defense system we’d spent trillions of dollars on was to fail catastrophically and completely for several hours, so the chain of command was changed to put put new people in charge of our air defenses. When a plane hits a building, the plane falls down, Ed, not the building, and WTC 7 wasn’t even hit by a plane. All three buildings were brought down by controlled demolition. Buildings don’t “pancake” at free fall speed, and fires don’t pulverize concrete. Osama bin Laden was on the U.S. payroll, which is why his entire family was flown home after 9/11 without anyone questioning them, at a time when U.S. citizens were not allowed to fly, and the Bush administration demanded that the section about Saudi Arabia be withheld from publication after he was forced to allow a barely funded whitewash commission.

    I remember going to a local event about a change to our city charter and I was wearing my big red, “9/11 = Inside Job” button. An elderly Jewish woman whose accent placed her as having been born and raised in Germany, stopped me on my way out and said, “That’s not true! Our government would never do a thing like that!” I didn’t argue with her. I didn’t ask if she’d been in the camps because she’d said the same thing about the German government until it was too late to flee. I didn’t mention the Reichstag fire. I just shook my head sadly and thought to myself, “Some people never learn.”

    Did Israel make the desert bloom? Did we civilize the savage natives? Every genocide, every land grab, is rationalized somehow. The Germans needed Lebensraum. They’d been humiliated after WWI and they needed to strike back ten times. There’s always an excuse. “Daddy, Mommy–he/she hit me first!” The answer is, “Time out. Go to your rooms and don’t come out until you can stop fighting.”

    There is no security in this world. If they come here, Israeli soldiers, just like Nazi concentration camp guards, may run into some of the very people they victimized and be recognized by them. The ONLY real security is to treat others with the same respect you’d want if your positions were reversed. Because if history teaches us anything at all, it is that sooner or later, those positions WILL be reversed.

    Those who have been mistreated should be even more respectful of the rights of others, because they themselves know personally what it is to be mistreated. It does not absolve somebody of abuse to prove that they had been abused themself. If somebody steals my wallet, can I steal yours? Not only were the Palestinians not responsible for the Holocaust, but to a great part the United States WAS. Read Charles Highham, “Trading With the Enemy,” and “American Swastika.” Hitler learned anti-Semitism from Henry Ford. Some of the biggest multinational corporations in the world got their start by supporting the Holocaust, using slave labor from the camps, and supplying the Nazi war effort. Check the brands on your kitchen appliances and then google them, adding the word “Holocaust,” and you may be surprised to learn that you make your coffee in a gadget made by a company that killed your relatives.

    There are Jewish-Arab, Israeli-Palestinian organizations and schools. I went to a talk by two teachers from a school like that, one Israeli and one Palestinian, and neither of them had any mistrust of the other.

    One thing I feel pretty strongly about is that if Israel will not allow Palestinians to return, why should the United States allow Israelis to return? So what if they were born here? Somebody else is living in their homes, if their jobs weren’t outsourced, somebody else has them, and they’d only want to take jobs and housing away from Americans who never pledged allegiance to any other country. We have quite enough violent religious fanatics of various stripes here already.

    If the article is correct, Israelis have less than twenty years in which to start treating others the way that they’ll want to be treated when it is their turn. I’d strongly suggest that they start now. Because with the state of our economy and the way we have trampled over human rights all over the globe, we won’t be in a position to help–chances are that our own empire will have fallen by then, and nobody’s going to feel sorry for us either.

    Reply
  26. Jameela

    The Children of Israel vs. the Children of Adam in the final battle, a battle between two species. This is not about religion and never was. Read the Qur’an, not the KORAN and you will discover what the Jews have kept hidden from the Children of Adam. The Jews are Satan’s Offspring, monkeys and swine.

    Reply
  27. David Neunuebel

    Interesting! Mexico? Really? We’re going to become Mexico? I really don’t care, need work on my Spanish anyway and full emersion is always the best. If we all have equal rights for all people, one person, one vote, and all benefits of what America has become I wouldn’t care if you called it Mexico, Canada, USA, or even Israel. The problem is Israel has two sets of laws, one for Jews (whites) and one for Palestinians (blacks). The official Israeli name for The Wall is The Separation Barrier which is exactly the definition of Apartheid. That never lasts, so dream on Zionists if you think you can go on this way. Twenty years, five years, fifty years – it took almost a hundred years for South African’s Apartheid to fall, but fall it did and this one will fall too. It will be much better for the Jews when it does.

    Reply
  28. Job

    If CIA will read more of the Bible they will know their Report is a lie, Though it is known in the Bible Countries friendly to Israel will forsake it but God will never Forsake them!

    Reply
  29. Mohsin

    After all the reading on the subject of the present Israel / Palestinian conflict, its exciting to get a perspective from Mark E. Smith that puts the whole picture in perspective.From a person that believes in a supreme being to an Atheist, “God bless you in the search for the truth”

    Reply
  30. Samir S. Halabi

    Israel won’t perish as you all wish it to.
    Infact there’s more probability that you the jew-haters, will perish first. remember this where the F— do you think all those Jews will go to, no one want’s them, you the americans never even accepepted 900 odd german Jewish refugees just before world war two broke out in 1939 when the last boat sailed from Hamburg in Nazi-Germany to Cuba,
    however all the permits issued to those jews were made null and void by the cubans. The boat then was in American territorial waters and was ordered out. In other words the last place those jews have is israel, take that away from them and they will drag all you scum into hell with them. 1,000,000 jews also were made refugees by those arab barbarians just before during and after the inception of the state of israel in 1948, we were made homeless, stateless and centless refugees, we outnumbered your precious trouble making arab refugees of the former British Mandate of palestine by two to one. Over 60% of the jewish population are comprised of the Jews from arab lands.

    Reply
    1. Masrur

      Dear Mr. Halabi: Where are you getting your figures from? And, when and how did the Arabs turn Jews into refugees? Wow!

      Reply
  31. Andres

    The real problems really started when the UN chopped up the 'holy land' and decided that Jews should live where Arabs used to. Of course as an Arab getting kicked out of your own home would piss you off. All that did was fan the flames of hate on BOTH sides.

    Israeli’s can care less for the Palestinians and be honest – they live as 2nd class citizens. All that hatred now turned many Palestinians into terrorists wanting to blow up any jew they can.

    Very sad situation in my opinion.

    Reply
  32. anwar

    The disclosed content of C I A reports rightly analise that Isreal existance is in danger.How long Isreal will kill innocent palestians. How long Isreal will force palestian to leave their homes.How long the world will remain silent on all atrocities , apartheid regime,huge nuclear arsenal in middle east. How long the US peoples will remain silient on all above atocities .you cannot live in sea of enemies.Previously Iran was Isreal best friend ,but now enemy. similerly Isreal has also converted its best friends Turky into enemy.Morover how long Isrealies will live in costent mental tension of being wipeout.

    Reply
  33. Bruce

    The next few generations won't put up with the problems of the Middle East, solutions will arise and the first place that needs fixing is israel. I don't care what happens to it, I just don't want any involvement with their criminal state.

    Reply
  34. visit

    Can I make a proposal? i find myself youve bought something good here. But what in case you added a pair back links to a webpage that backs up what youre saying? or possibly you would possibly give us one thing to have a look at, one thing which can connect what youre saying to something tangible? Just a proposal.

    Reply

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