donate or subscribe
Follow Us Twitter Facebook

Mike Brown appears to have paid for those cigars

August 20, 2014

by OllieGarkey

The youngster Michael Brown is holding reflects the love this young man gave and received.

The youngster Michael Brown is holding reflects the love this young man gave and received.

“Ferguson police’s attempts to demonize Michael Brown, the unarmed African-American teen killed by Officer Darren Wilson, may have hit a small snag,” reports Crooks and Liars. “The very video they released at the same time as they identified Wilson as the officer responsible for shooting Brown six times, including twice in the head, may show the opposite of what they intended.

“Supposedly, the video shows Brown robbing the store, taking a box of cigars. However, the attorney for Ferguson Market says that it was not anyone from the store who called police to report a robbery. In fact, a customer called to report what he viewed as a robbery.

“How, then, did police get the tape? According to St. Louis News, ‘The attorney said, during the course of Ferguson (PD)’s investigation, they came to the store and asked for to review the tape.” In other words, the tape was not viewed by police until after Michael Brown was dead in the street.

“In their fervent effort to cast Brown in a negative light, they missed that the video seems to show Brown paying for the Swisher Sweets.

“While it is difficult to be 100 percent certain, the video appears to show Brown purchasing some cigars but lacking the money for the amount he wished to buy. Brown seems to purchase some cigarillos, pay for them, attempt to buy more, then replace the ones he could not afford.”

“The confrontation between Brown and the clerk may have been because Brown impatiently reached across the counter. Perhaps it was wrong for Brown to shove the employee – it is impossible to know what words were exchanged – but this footage seems to exonerate him. It is important to note that Brown only shoved the clerk after he put his hands on him.”

C&L does a good job discussing how media jumped on the “thug” bandwagon and attempted to aid the character assassination of Michael Brown.

Anyone attempting to justify this shooting by calling Michael Brown a “thug” or a “criminal” or who says that “he had a rap sheet,” as various people have claimed over the past few days is, clearly, a racist.

Even if Brown did commit the petty theft of a $5 pack of cigars, a pack he appears to have paid for, gunning him down in the aftermath is murder. Petty theft is not a capital crime.

Henry Davis, 52, arrested Sept. 20, 2009, in a case of mistaken identity, was beaten by Ferguson PD, then charged with property damage for bleeding on an officer’s uniform. Davis insisted this photo be taken at the hospital before he was treated. Later, in court, the officer denied there’d been any blood on his uniform.

Henry Davis, 52, arrested Sept. 20, 2009, in a case of mistaken identity, was beaten by Ferguson PD, then charged with property damage for bleeding on an officer’s uniform. Davis insisted this photo be taken at the hospital before he was treated. Later, in court, the officer denied there’d been any blood on his uniform.

The police themselves are never supposed to dispense punishment. Their job is never to punish. That is the job of the courts. Yet when the police in this country act to punish, they are given a pass by people who don’t seem to understand the rule of law, or the importance of our laws and rights.

Yet there has been this parade of forces attempting to justify the police action as if it could possibly be justified.

This cannot possibly be justified. There is no scenario in which the shooting of an unarmed teenager is remotely acceptable.

And the Ferguson PD have proved themselves to be liars, yet again. Just like the time that they charged a man with four counts of destruction of city property for bleeding on their uniforms while they beat him.

The fact that the Ferguson PD are liars shouldn’t surprise anyone. But perhaps this bit of evidence can help us push back against the character assassination they’re using against an innocent murdered American teenager.

Will McLeod (OllieGarkey) resides in Washington, D.C. He has been active in the progressive movement across state lines, spent time in Zuccotti Park as part of the Occupy movement and can be reached at Twitter.com/WillMcLeod99. McLeod writes frequently for Daily Kos, where this story first appeared. Bay View staff contributed to this story.

 

76 thoughts on “Mike Brown appears to have paid for those cigars

  1. 1956richardgreene

    Don’t worry their will always be a sick demented segment of feces which will try and defend race murdering white cops. If African American heavily armed police officers stalked their neighborhood they will resist to the death.

    Reply
    1. Diggler

      Of all the police shootings in America, more whites are killed by police. On the other hand 13% of the population is black yet they account for 49% of all murders in the country. 90% of those are blacks killing blacks. So I ask you, where are the real issues here. Your ignorance to fact and reality is amazing

      Reply
      1. FoxNewsFactsCheck

        Discuss that on a story that is dedicated to those stories. This is not dealing with those. I know you and your FOX NEWS talking points needs to desperately change the subject, but people aren’t as ignorant as you need/wish them to be.

        Reply
        1. FrankieB

          “If you watch the video real close, you’ll see that Mike pays for the cigars, the clerk gives the change, then a hsand from behind, probably Johnson, scoops up the change.”

          Yeah, and if you watch closer you’ll see Valedictorian Brown help a Little Old Lady across the street, get a cat out of a tree, rescue a child from a burning building, and read to a bunch of pre-school children.

          The guy was a thug. Good Riddance !

          Reply
      2. Meta

        See this is the real deal. Blacks kill blacks and whites kill whites. Herein lies the difference. The police force country wide is predominantly white. It is a sad but notorious truth that the media, history, and utter lack of full disclosure makes black people ‘look’ like they are in the majority for everything this violent or wrong with this country. White people don’t know enough black folks in their inner circles to have to worry about being killed by one. Most white folks are killed by other white folks. The SAME phenomena exists for black people. They don’t have enough white folks in their inner circle to be killed by one in their every day goings and comings. BUT THEY ARE MORE LIKELY TO BE SHOT BY THE COPS….yeah…which happen to be a predominately white organization. Let’s be honest here people.

        A close friend’s son was shot dead in the street because he had a BBgun. no warning, no loud speaker from the car…nothing. The boy was 14 and white. What we don’t get is that this is more of a CLASS issue than a race issue. WHITE COPS WILL SHOT POOR WHITE KIDS, POOR BLACK KIDS, POOR HISPANIC KIDS. I love my friends who work for the police. They are good guys who are in the neighborhood, at church, and in the schools getting to know the kids and their families. Then you have THE POORLY TRAINED folks, the UNDERCOVER RACISTS, the COMPLETELY MENTALLY ILL who ‘protect and serve’. There is a difference. We need to have a REAL discussion about what’s going on. Leave the bs at the door and dig into the fact that we are police state who polices the world, but can’t get our own business in order. ins

        Reply
  2. LittleBigFoot

    Excellent reporting…… If you disregard the fact that Dorian Johnson with his lawyer admits that Green stole the cigars.

    Reply
  3. Peace Warrior

    I watched the video. The video shows a man handing stolen swisher sweet cigars to an accomplice directly behind him. Then the video shows the same man stealing more swisher sweet cigars from somewhere inside the “cashier’s cage” and in his attempt to grab too many to hold, he dropped some of the cigar packs. Shows the thief bending over to pick up some of the stolen cigar packs he dropped. The accomplice walks out of frame. Then the video shows the cashier coming outside the cage to address the cigar thief. Then both the thief and tyhe accomplice walk out of frame.

    Reply
  4. Jean Valjean

    It doesn’t matter if he stole the cigars or not. No one has the right to pick a fight with you in the middle of the street and when they lose that fight pull a gun and shoot you. If that was any of us we would be charged with assault and murder.

    But to then continue shooting after the person surrendered is clearly murder regardless of what authority you may have.

    These are the pertinent issues that the media and government wants us to ignore.

    The police do not have the right to use violence and threat of violence to get their way and they don’t have a right to execute you once you submit to their violence.

    Reply
    1. Kyle

      What he is suggesting is that as a grounds of surrendering, you should not be shot 6 times. Twice in the head by the way, after an initial shot was fired. With no weapons or anything to convey you were a threat needing lethal force used upon you.

      Reply
  5. see

    That video shows brown paying for cigars? Really…I didn’t see it. I did see him spill a few on the floor…then pick them up and leave.

    Reply
    1. Stephen Strappelli

      I saw the video too. If he paid for the “sweets”,then why did this six foot-four,292 pound “kid” lift the store clerk off the floor by the neck and throw him on his back with one hand on his way out the door. Someone is grossly misportraying this hood as an innocent. Come on……………give me a bit of a break! I would like to see the poor boy’s criminal history report. We all should, before we have to endure more of Sharpton ahd Holder’s hogwash style whitewash. Let alone the federal interference in the State’s prosecution of the trial upcomming. The only Racist agenda I see is Holder’s. Simply disgusting…………..SDS

      Reply
      1. meeester

        Isn’t that how you pay for things?Milk, eggs, throttle the clerk…oops how about some doughnuts, slap ’em around, oops forgot my free range organic arugula, shove the clerk. Have a nice day.
        This is a reminder to me of how awful it must be in San Francisco. Are there any sensible people in that town?

        Reply
  6. Sean sav.

    That video shows him paying!?! Really…I didn’t see that. I saw him grab a box and spill some and puck em up and leave.

    Reply
  7. Arthur Shuey

    Officer Wilson acted in self defense. Had he not done so, we would have a dead policeman and an armed homicidal giant walking the middle of the streets of Ferguson right now. Had the policeman been black, he would have had the same law enforcement duties and the same sense of self-preservation, and so would have done the same thing Wilson did

    Reply
  8. Tyrell

    So your a “thug” because u steal cigars , doesn’t make sense to me I thought wen you steal your a thief . I work at a grocery store and bums steal all the time, so since they steal their “thugs” too right. Cause if you apply that kind of thinking everyone who steals should be labeled a “thug”. All races have people that steal stuff, stealing don’t make you a “thug”. Makes you a thief

    Reply
    1. Nicholas Stix

      When you commit assault and battery against a store employee trying to stop you from stealing, it becomes felony robbery. You need to come up with better lies.

      Nicholas Stix, Uncensored

      Reply
      1. Kwane Jackson

        That makes your ALL of your thieving forefathers THUGS by your logic! They stole Africans, they stole land from Indians, they stole land from Mexico, and they didn’t do it with a “pillow fight”.

        Reply
        1. Bryan

          Kwane Jackson wrote: “That makes your ALL of your thieving forefathers THUGS by your logic! They stole Africans, they stole land from Indians, they stole land from Mexico…”
          ====
          Logic? Er, like so many of the comments supporting Brown, you’ve made some unwarranted assumptions. 1) First, learn the definition of “ALL.” I’ve always warned my statistics students to avoid absolutist terms like “all” and “none” because just ONE example would disprove your claim. Since you’ve brought up the topic of “logic,” try studying Boolean Logic (high school level) to see why saying “ALL” is nonsensical, especially since you don’t know our racial makeup.

          2) Why are you assuming that we’re all white, or of European ancestry? Please quote where we’ve given that indication. How do you know that we’re not Latino, Asian, African-American, Native American, etc? You do realize that American is a multiracial melting pot, right? And if I am Asian, for example, how did my “forefathers” participate in stealing Africans, or land from Indians and Mexico? And if you knew anything about American slavery, you’d realize that slaveholders had very specific European ancestry. So even if I am White, being of Swedish, Russian or Yugoslavian, etc ancestry would mean that my forefathers had nothing to do with those crimes. So why are you implicating all Caucasians? In fact, Africans themselves sold the slaves to White slave traders — so black African “forefathers” bear more guilt than a White person of Swedish ancestry,

          3) Finally, what’s your point? That our ancestors were thugs? You’d find no disagreement here. Civilization was very different in the past and yes, conflicts were often resolved with force and intimidation. So tell me something I don’t already know. And that’s true of ALL races, including Africans (and yes, this is an accurate use of the word, “ALL”). So what’s your point? Furthermore, let’s use some logic here. How does our forefathers being thugs EXCLUDE Michael Brown from being one too? We are, after all, talking about Brown here. What does our forefathers have to do with whether Brown robbed the store, and whether he might have been aggressive toward the officer?

          Here’s the thing: You thought you were being clever in saying that white forefathers were all thugs. But that’s a point no one here ever disputed! Not only was your argument illogical and irrelevant, but it proved your ignorance about European, American and African history — specifically the history of slavery and immigration patterns. Furthermore, it exposed your own racism for assuming that we’re all White of a specific European history,

          Think about it.

          Reply
          1. RNBSNLSU

            Thank you Life Messenger……Bryan knows so much..he is too blind to see Brown’s friend put the cigarettes BACK ON THE COUNTER! What is the standard deviation of the happening Bryan? Perhaps the store clerk store didnt see when Dorian put them back and when he confronted Mike about it….Mike got upset and pushed him.
            Bryant also….Middle Eastern people took down the Twin Towers and a plane and you REALLY think they are afraid to report stealing?

          2. Bryan

            RNBSNLSU ranted:
            “What is the standard deviation of the happening Bryan?”
            ===
            Er, do you know what “standard deviation” means? Not only is that question nonsensical, it doesn’t appear to be English either. What is “the happening”?

            RNBSNLSU:
            “Bryan knows so much..he is too blind to see Brown’s friend put the cigarettes BACK ON THE COUNTER!”
            ===
            Care to give me the time signature of that happening? If he had returned the cigars, then:
            1) Why did Dorian admit to stealing the cigars to MSNBC? He said nothing about returning them. If he did return them, don’t you think he would have said that?
            2) Why is the title of this blog entry, “Mike Brown appears to have paid for those cigars”? If Dorian had returned the cigars, why would Mike Brown pay for it??? Are you contradicting the writer of this blog, who supports the Brown family?
            3) Why did Brown’s cousin also tell ABC News that Brown might have paid for the cigars? Again, if Dorian had returned the cigars why would Brown pay for it?
            4) Why was a box of cigars found in Brown’s possession at the shooting?

            Do your research and THINK before you post. Seriously, saying that he put the cigars back basically cancels the TITLE of this blog entry. So are you saying that this blog was wrong? And FYI, they were cigars, not cigarettes.

            RNBSNLSU:
            “Perhaps the store clerk store didnt see when Dorian put them back and when he confronted Mike about it….Mike got upset and pushed him.”
            ===
            That’s irrelevant because ANY physical violence from Brown contradicts the family’s claim that he’s “a gentle giant” and Dorian’s claim that “Big Mike wouldn’t hurt anyone.” If Brown reacted violently toward the clerk for something minor, what makes you think he wouldn’t have also reacted violently toward the officer?

            I don’t know how things are handled where you live, but in my neighborhood, adults handle conflicts with discussions, not shoves. If I was mistakenly accused of something, I’d simply point out the mistake. Since you claim that he put the cigars back, both Mike and Dorian could have simply shown that the cigars are on the counter Duh! But of course, they couldn’t do that since your claim is false.

            RNBSNLSU:
            “Bryant also….Middle Eastern people took down the Twin Towers and a plane and you REALLY think they are afraid to report stealing?”
            ===
            Who is Bryant? And I can’t believe you just wrote something so stupid. First off, the liquor store’s owner is an American of Middle Eastern descent. He’s been in business for 18 years. Secondly, he’s from Israel (which, if you don’t know, is also Middle Eastern). Does that match the demographics of the 9/11 terrorists? Are you seriously racist and stupid enough to extrapolate the 9/11 terrorists to ALL people of Middle Eastern descent? This Mike Brown issue is at least partially about racism, and you are moronic enough to make a racist argument??? Finally, what is the psychological relevance of terrorism and willingness to report a crime? The store owner LIVES in the area, and depends on local patrons, and is at risk for retribution. Do the terrorists have ANY of those issues?

            If you think I’m joking, watch the news tonight. Those thugs just looted his store AGAIN. That means he’s been victimized THREE times: first by Michael Brown, then by looters in August, and now again, after the Grand Jury decision. If you don’t think he’s afraid, it’s clear you don’t watch the news. Don’t be lazy, Google “Sonny Dayan.” And read the link below.

            BTW, no one from the Brown family has apologized to the store for the initial crime, or shown any sympathy. THINK ABOUT IT.

          3. FWA

            ohkay.. you get sensitive when someone says ‘all white ppl’ but dont forget that ‘all white people’ benefit from being simply white.. thats called white privilege. (just google it or some shit) And you can nit pick my comment for minor inncorrections and deem me as an idiot just like your people nit pick petty crimes to justify the killing of black men. He could be a thug or a man in a suit, but thats no reason to use excessive force to kill him. Many white people(germans, brits, dutch…blah blah blah decent) have done horrible crimes and were convicted without being killed. If they(or yall) saw a black person from africa, you think white america is gonna ask, “did we steal your ancestors and are you a descendant from those people…that we stole?? Or are you straight from africa??” yea they only see skin color or black features

  9. Candice

    What about when you look at every white cop with suspicion – does that deem you a racist or just knowledgable? @Tyrell- maybe I’m not up on the definition of ‘thug’, but isn’t a thug someone who bullies people along with
    breaking the law?

    Reply
    1. g. l.

      Actually, this is the definition of a thug:a member of a religious organization of robbers and assassins in India. Devotees of the goddess Kali, the Thugs waylaid and strangled their victims, usually travelers, in a ritually prescribed manner. They were suppressed by the British in the 1830s.

      Reply
      1. Bryan

        The etymological definition of a word is mostly irrelevant. The current working definition of someone who intimidates or strongarms his (her?) will has been around since the 30’s or so, when America was dealing with organized crime and its soldiers. Today, it’s often used in the context of gangs, or gangstas.

        Reply
  10. Bryan

    Actually, no, the video doesn’t help Brown. Regardless of whether he stole, there’s no doubt he physically threatened the clerk. And that’s the issue: whether Brown is a violent individual. The video is relevant because immediately after the shooting, you had all kinds of testimonials claiming that Brown is “a gentle giant” and wouldn’t hurt anyone. No one complained that those testimonials were irrelevant. The video shows that he was prone to [unprovoked?] violence and could indeed hurt someone.

    Paul Callen of CNN also pointed out that if Brown had stolen or cheated the store, he would have been in a state of paranoia — expecting to be arrested. He had no idea that the officer didn’t know about the incident; in his mind, he was about to be arrested. Being just weeks from starting college, this would have raised hell with his parents, so he may have had an irrational reaction to seeing the officer. Neither Callen nor I say that this is indeed the case, but it certainly shows why the cigar incident is relevant.

    Reply
  11. Bryan

    In the article, OllieGarkey wrote: “…it is impossible to know what words were exchanged…”
    ===
    Wrong. That’s because the clerk was a participant, and he is available as a witness. I don’t see OllieGarkey complaining about all the THIRD PERSON witnesses giving accounts of the shooting. Yet when we have an actual FIRST PERSON participant (victim) of the cigar incident here, s/he claims that it’s “impossible” to know what actually happened. The clerk is as good a witness as any [alleged] crime victim. If you’re going to discount his testimony, then you might as well disregard the testimony from ANY [alleged] crime victim.

    The bottom line is that Brown physically threatened the clerk, suggesting that he is not the “gentle giant” many claimed he was. In fact, I think it’s very telling that this article ONLY includes a photo of Brown smiling benevolently. Where are all the other photos with Brown in thug poses? I certainly agree that posed photos don’t mean much, but why the bias? Why show the ONLY photo of Brown smiling? Think about it.

    Reply
  12. Avidreader100

    One would think that honest police should have released the entire video footage not just the footage which served their purpose of protecting their officer who coincidentally unloaded his gun into the young man and killed him. The young man can no longer speak for himself. The entire video raises questions. For example: People who are about to steal do not normally stop at the counter just before leaving a store, but people who pay do stop at the counter just before leaving the store. The question is why did he stop at the counter?
    What words were exchanged? Racial Slurs, derogatory language or something to cause a peaceful person to behave differently or peaceful words and by whom? There is always more to view and more points of view. The entire video should be as readily available to the press and public, after all, the young man was gunned down – executed with at least two(?) bullets to the head in the street.

    Reply
    1. Bryan

      Avidreader wrote: “People who are about to steal do not normally stop at the counter just before leaving a store, but people who pay do stop at the counter just before leaving the store. The question is why did he stop at the counter?”
      ===
      The answer is very simple. You’re forgetting that ALL tobacco products are behind the counter due to age restriction. So if Brown wanted to steal cigars or cigarettes, he NECESSARILY had to stop by the counter. You’re also confusing shoplifting with brazen stealing. It’s true that a shoplifter would try to sneak past the counter, but robbers often do not, i.e. bank robbers. Since the box of cigars was held openly, it might have been outright stealing and not shoplifting.

      Here’s a slightly more benign scenario. It has been suggested that he went in to buy something else. Upon paying, he saw the cigars behind the counter and decided he wanted a box. He then either didn’t have enough money to pay, or had no intentions of paying, and simply took the cigars.

      No matter the scenario, the flaw in your question is that he MUST go to the counter if he wanted cigars. It had nothing to do with his motives. It had everything to do with going where the cigars are located. Regardless, he physically threatened the clerk, proving that he wasn’t always the “gentle giant” his friends claimed.

      Reply
    2. Bryan

      @Avidread100 used the term “young man” 4 times. His age actually works against the Browns. First, it’s not relevant when talking about the officer because he had no way of knowing whether Brown was 18 or 25. It was a chaotic situation, and all one can see is a 6’4″ 290lb man allegedly charging — or falling wounded — toward the officer. Second, it’s well-known that teen males often react irrationally to conflict with violence. This is especially true in the Inner Cities and within certain subcultures, i.e. hip hop, gangsta rap, gangs, etc — although I’m certainly not saying that Brown belonged to those subcultures. For all I know, he was studying ballet and violin; I simply don’t know enough. But the way he physically intimidated that clerk is damning. So being 18 actually makes it more likely that he may have reacted violently toward the officer…

      Reply
  13. Candice

    Shoplifters are sneaky and do not stop at the counter, robbers are not and do. This would be a case of the latter.

    Reply
  14. Matt

    I don’t claim to know what happened but it baffles me that some can not imagine a scenario where it would be reasonable that the policeman would gun a person down. Lets be reasonable. If as some say a 6 ft 4 inch 290 pound man is bull rushing you and you have reason to believe he is coming for your gun, wouldn’t that be a justifiable thing to shoot at that point? Some say that the fact he was shot in the top of the head means the officer was automatically in the wrong. Again, if someone lowers their shoulder and is bull rushing, wouldnt the top of his head be exposed to the gunfire? The family can’t imagine a situation where their son’s death was in his own hands, but I can.

    Reply
    1. Angie

      If the Cop felt he responded reasonably; why would he NOT call in the incident; or write a report. Why did they wash the body, prior to the family requested autopsy. Why have they taken so long to turn over Mike Brown’s clothing, Why, why, why are there so many policy violations. You kill someone; and you don’t write a report, REALLY??? My problem is why can’t you believe this Cop killed this young man in cold blood.

      Reply
      1. Bryan

        Angie ranted: “If the Cop felt he responded reasonably; why would he NOT call in the incident; or write a report. Why did they wash the body, prior to the family requested autopsy. Why have they taken so long to turn over Mike Brown’s clothing, Why, why, why are there so many policy violations. You kill someone; and you don’t write a report, REALLY??? My problem is why can’t you believe this Cop killed this young man in cold blood.”

        ==========

        You’re confusing several issues here, and making unwarranted conclusions. First, this has nothing to do with whether Brown robbed the store and physically threatened the clerk, which is the topic of this article (that’s two crimes, by the way). Addressing your claims:

        1) According to the AP timeline, the encounter occurred at 12:01p, so the shooting occurred somewhere from 12:01p to 12:03p. Then at 12:04p, “Another officer arrives on the scene after the shooting, and an ambulance is contacted to treat Brown’s wounds.” That means, AT MOST, 3 mins passed before someone was contacted about the shooting. I don’t know about Ferguson, but in NYC, officers are often traumatized or hurt right after an incident, and reports are often written later — as long as the wounded are cared for. And in this case, an ambulance was called within minutes. Furthermore, it is not unreasonable that Wilson may have thought that the second officer already called in the incident since he called for an ambulance.

        2) Who told you that a report was NEVER written? Do you have proof from a reliable source, i.e. the AP, Reuters, NY Times, etc (NOT some blog) that a report was never written, even back in the station? If you’d listen to the dispatcher recording, you’d see that the incident escalated quickly into mob mentality, and crowd control was requested. That’s certainly no time to write a report.

        3) The rest of your post is meaningless without a normative reference. In my field of medical research, we call that a control. In other words, how did Ferguson police handle previous incidents? Did they wash the body? Did they take long in handing over clothing? Etc, etc, etc. To prove that this was a coverup, or otherwise out of the norm, you have to show me that the Ferguson police ONLY treated the Brown case this way.

        4) Your conclusions can’t be drawn from the “evidence” you claim. For example, bureaucratic irregularities and failures can easily be attributed to poor management, understaffing, laziness, etc.

        5) Furthermore, how do DEPARTMENTAL failures disprove that “the Cop felt he responded reasonably”? The keyword here is “felt.” How does ANY of what you cite give us a psychological profile of how Wilson felt as he fired? And that’s key. The law generally allows an officer to shoot, and kill, if he felt mortally threatened — even if he was mistaken. And if he was mistaken, it becomes incompetence — not “in cold blood” or “an execution,” as Benjamin Crump calls it. At best, you’d have a civil case, not a criminal case.
        6) Finally, as with any crime, you need a motive to say Wilson “killed this young man in cold blood.” So what was it? Was it out of racism? Does he have a proven history of racism? Did he hate men over 6′? Was it a crime of passion? Was he jealous? Was he anti-Semetic and mistakenly thought Brown was Jewish? Or was he homophobic and thought Brown was gay? Was Wilson trying to rob Brown? Was it a sex crime? Was Wilson insane? So why exactly do you think Wilson killed Brown and risked an investigation and his career? If you don’t have a motive, then the only logical conclusion is that it was a mistake.

        Reply
  15. isaac

    We must see what we want to see. I don’t see any money changing hands. I don’t see him reaching for a wallet and paying for anything. I don’t see any change, I don’t see a receipt, nothing like what i would expect to see from a transaction. I see him reaching on the far side of the counter and taking something, then I see the clerk coming from the other side of the counter to challenge him. There was a police report and his friend who was with him admitted to stealing the cigars. If something that both sides agree is a fact, how can anyone ever agree on a shooting scenario that none of us witnessed? No matter how this turns out, people somewhere will be upset because of what they ‘think’ happened when we really have no freakin idea. But we DO know about the cigars. So why are we denying it?

    Reply
    1. john henry

      This. Everyone is trying to dismiss the fact he stole the cigars even when his friend admitted they were stolen. That doesn’t mean and prove anything having to do with the shooting, but enough with the fake bs please from both sides. Thanks and bye.

      Reply
  16. Bryan

    Anyone who claims that Brown paid is simply ignorant of the news. This issue is not debatable because his friend/accomplish DORIAN JOHNSON ADMITTED TO MSNBC THAT THEY STOLE THE CIGARS. Since it was WILLINGLY told to the media — and THROUGH AN ATTORNEY — you can’t claim that Johnson was coerced for a false confession by the police. The best living eyewitness admitted to the crime. Discussion over. Google AP article titled, “Attorney: Dorian Johnson confirms he was with Brown at store robbery”

    Reply
    1. Bryan

      Sim Wortham asked: “If he stole the cigars why didn’t the store report it?”
      ===
      1) There were only a few minutes between the theft and Brown’s death. You don’t know if the clerk would have reported the theft later that day. It was not an emergency situation so busy victims often wait to report minor crimes.
      2) More importantly, reporting it would have done nothing. The thief would not have gone to jail, and he would not have gotten his cigars back, nor money for them. Worse, he might be subject to revenge for any arrest. This is why many Asian and Middle Eastern store owners don’t report small crimes, or even admit to being witnesses. I work closely with those communities here in NYC. Ask the police or social workers if you don’t believe me. This fear of reporting is a significant problem for law enforcement.

      To see how scared the store owners are, watch theFox2News report titled, “Store owners speak out about surveillance video after release.” They want to make clear that they were not the ones to call the police, and that they did not willingly hand over the tape. Furthermore, he said that he didn’t want to get involved in this case.

      Reply
      1. g. l.

        The police officer didn’t stop him for stealing anyway. It was for Jay walking. The theft isnot even the reason he was being stopped. Could be why he (brown) may have been paranoid but not why he was questioned or shot.

        Reply
        1. Bryan

          The paranoia (and marijuana in his blood) would explain why he might have behaved aggressively toward Officer Wilson. And that really is the key to this: Did Brown behave in a way that made Wilson justifiably fear for his life? The forensics support Wilson.

          1) The gun wounds suggest that Brown was NOT fleeing when shot
          2) Evidence shows a struggle in the car
          3) Much has been made that Wilson was as tall as Brown. But that’s irrelevant because Wilson was sitting while Brown was standing. In self-defense, LEVERAGE makes all the difference. Brown had HUGE leverage over Wilson. In fact, Wilson’s movement was confined by the car.
          4) Furthermore, by moving, Brown had momentum. If you remember high school physics, Momentum = Mass x Velocity (p = M x V). Brown was massive AND he was moving, giving him lots of momentum toward Wilson. Wilson was sitting, meaning his velocity was ZERO. That means he had NO momentum toward Brown (p = M x 0).

          Leverage + Momentum + paranoia over being arrested + marijuana + Wilson being confined in car = It being very likely that Wilson felt his life was threatened

          Reply
    2. Bryan

      Sim Wortham asked:
      “If he stole the cigars why didn’t the store report it?”
      ===
      As we now know from the Grand Jury evidence, it WAS reported and Officer WIlson knew of the robbery, including the clothing worn by the thieves.

      You’re also making a logical error. You mistakenly assume that all crimes are reported. That’s certainly not true of petty crimes, which this was, especially if the victim fears reprisal. Your question reminds me of the ethical lapse a lot of children have: “If no one sees me doing it, then it’s not a crime!” Yes, a crime is still a crime even when there are no witnesses, or no one reports it.

      Reply
  17. signalfire6

    Dear Moms who don’t want their kids shot; teach them not to intimidate store clerks, not to reach behind the counter for things, not to talk back to police officers, or try to grab a cop’s weapon, and finally, if you want to have stores of any kind in your neighborhood, teach your children to realize that if enough crimes are committed in a given area, you won’t have any place left to shop whatsoever… oh, and while I’m at it, what the hell is an 18 year old doing smoking effing cigars, anyways? Did anyone ever ask this ‘kid’ where he got the money for the cigars they must have noticed he was using? Did he have a job? Money? Or just ‘things’ that seemed to appear out of nowhere? Because that store clerk harassment wasn’t the first time good ‘ol Michael had done that, that’s for sure.

    Reply
    1. jay bemore

      don’t you mean dear black moms..he got shot because of his size and skin color. If he was white it wouldn’t have ended this way. I’ve seen videos where cops take down white people with machine guns without killing them. Im not gong to doubt that the cop was scared because the media and society tells him black people are criminals but he should be trained to handle these situations and take the right action for the crime.

      Reply
      1. Candice

        When you say media, do you mean hiphop music? I hope so. Tv and movies portray blacks as law abiding and as successful as any other race ever since the 80s Cosby show. News outlets have come to report less crime than in the past to take the image of blacks as criminals out of view. But how does society otherwise portray blacks in a bad light?

        Reply
  18. TheGeck

    Bryan it is nice to see an intelligent person comment by the way you couldn’t be more correct, put emotion aside and look at facts. Bottom line, common sense should tell a person not to antagonize an armed person and that death could be a consequence, (I think that the badge gave him a false sense of security). This individual took the risk and unfortunately paid with his life….ultimately he made the choices that got him where he is today…So who is to blame? That is a pretty deep fox hole, I would have to say: Parents, society, Peers, etc., etc., they all are, but that really isn’t the point. Mr. Brown created the situation that got him shot.

    Reply
  19. John

    Video shows him stealing two boxes. First box he handed to his friend but the friend put it back. Second box Brown keeps himself.

    Reply
  20. Bryan

    Never said that Brown was stopped for stealing the cigars. I already addressed your point in a post dated August 21, 8:15pm,. This incident is relevant to the shooting because:

    1) Brown had no way of knowing that Wilson didn’t know about the cigars. Thinking that he was about to be arrested, Brown might have been in a heightened state of paranoia and agitation. He was about to enter college in a few days, and being arrested would not have sit well with his parents. This may have made him more aggressive toward Wilson.

    2) Right after the incident, testimonials came in calling him a “gentle giant” who would never hurt anyone. This incident, with visual proof, disproves all those testimonials. No only did he steal, but he also assaulted the clerk. This is important for showing aggression and a disregard for the law. The video also showed how large Brown was relative to others..

    Reply
  21. Ike Spenser

    If you watch the video real close, you’ll see that Mike pays for the cigars, the clerk gives the change, then a hsand from behind, probably Johnson, scoops up the change.

    Reply
    1. Ryan

      Ike Spenser wrote: “If you watch the video real close, you’ll see that Mike pays for the cigars, the clerk gives the change, then a hsand from behind, probably Johnson, scoops up the change.”
      ====
      Actually, it doesn’t show that. You’re making a lot of assumptions. For example, what’s our evidence that he paid for the cigars and not just for a pack of gum? Where’s the evidence that he paid the full amount? Some say that Brown went to pay for something else, then saw the cigars and took them. He either had no intentions of paying for them, or didn’t have enough to pay. Regardless, there was clearly a dispute which led to Brown assaulting the clerk — WHICH THIS VIDEO PURPOSELY CROPPED OUT.

      More importantly, you’re ignoring the fact that Johnson has ADMITTED THROUGH AN ATTORNEY to MSNBC that they stole the cigars. That means that the the admission was not coerced by the police. Why would Johnson admit that? Even the clerk, WHO IS VERY AFRAID, never denied that he was robbed or assaulted in that video. Sorry, but the video in no way shows that Brown paid for the cigars.

      Reply
  22. Life Messenger

    You are on a role Bryan. Have you been spell checking too? I guess you are appointed to answer and address everybody’s concerns. There is a thin line between intelligence and foolery and you, sir, have been tap dancing on that line! You have all the answers and still can not see that a human being was gunned down like a dog. I pray that our creator has mercy on your children and your soul because this issue indirectly effects you too. Can somebody look up theses words:

    Wimpy Male
    Albino Evolution
    Mutations

    Has anyone every seen an alien? They are the future humans trying to warn us. That is what we all are going to look like after weaklings are done getting rid of people of color. It is funny how people are quick to dismiss racism, even though it has been going on from the beginning of time. NEWS FLASH: It has everything to do with color!!!!!!!

    Stop fighting and marching and come out of her. Ex-Slaves that want to stay and fight over land that does not belong to them will suffer. Africa needs help, but we would rather be equal to the weakest breed on planet earth. You do not have to be European to have the same mentality. People of color can be guilty of adopting European tendencies to rule and control instead of promoting order. That would be to civilized!

    #freedomofspeech

    Reply
  23. JimmyCC

    People with my same thoughts have been skewered in this forum. They have been told that they are racist, that god needs to have mercy on their soul and that they are retarded. I will admit that people with the opposite opinion have received equally offensive insults. What is really wrong is that there isn’t enough evidence present to draw a reasonable conclusion. The officer, nor the police department, has ever released an official version. How can anyone come to a decision if half the evidence is not present? People love to criticize others, but aren’t willing to make the sufficient investment to be part of institution being criticized. Ferguson may have limited numbers of black officers, Do they have black volunteers, aides, interns or ride-alongs? This is the people of Ferguson’s police department. If they don’t invest any time, effort or money in making the police department theirs, they have no standing when things go wrong. A professor made the proclamation that the City officials were racist because they held elections for city positions in non-national election years. Apparently, that reduces the numbers of blacks and democrats voting. If you do not vote, your criticisms don’t carry the same weight. If you protest violently, you reduce your influence for change.

    Reply
  24. Manders

    Weather he paid or not, there was a call in that needed investigating. And the first contact with police and brown was over a violation of walking in the middle of the street.

    Now, one may ask “is walking down the middle of the street worth shooting someone over”? I ask “is walking down the middle of the street worth punching a cop over”? After Brown was shot over fighting with cop not stealing cigars.

    Reply
  25. MikeBrownLiesMatter

    Yeah, store clerks always be getting in my way after I pay for all my stuff also, that as I try and leave the shop, I have to throw them aside!

    Reply

Leave a Reply

BayView Classifieds - ads, opportunities, announcements