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by The Minister of Information JR Valrey
In Part Two of this legendary interview with Numskull, one half of rap group The Luniz, we talk about how he believes AI technology will affect music, we talk about how he doesn’t identify with the word “Black” as an identity, we talk about him going sober, vegetarian and more.
JR Valrey: What is your recollection of Pac? You are in Digital, Pac was in Digital. Was it at the same time?
Numskull: Nah. I met Pac through Digital though, but Pac to me was a strong dude, you know? I mean he was a hard headed dude. He was a “you gotta wanna be in it” type of nigga. I was that way too. That’s what Pac was and he didn’t give a fuck about nothing. And I love that. That was the good thing about him: He really cared about Black folks. I don’t really like using the word Black folks and we were just talking about that.
JR Valrey: What word do you use?
Numskull: I say that I am a carbon being because that’s what we are.
JR Valrey: You gotta give the people more of an explanation than that. People are gonna say that Num said that he is a carbon being. What does that mean?
Numskull: Everything is made of carbon. We are carbon. That’s what we are, you know what I mean? I’m definitely not Black because that is a color. That’s a construct. That is not me. If you wanna actually say what you are, you are a carbon being. You are made from carbon. You are a being. That is what you are, so that is what I call myself.
JR Valrey: Is that just an educated way of saying human being, man?
Numskull: It’s not. I do not know what a human is. I really don’t because there’s different humans I guess. What is the definition of human?
JR Valrey: Hue having color?
Numskull: But is that us? My soul is not a color, you know what I mean so …? We don’t have it all yet. We are trying to get the knowledge. I may have got in it late, but I’m in it.
JR Valrey: So going back to Hip Hop. If you look at Oakland Hip Hop and you look at New York Hip Hop, besides the music and the sound, what is the difference in how y’all did business? We hear about how their contracts were set up, and then we hear about how y’all was getting money through T’s Wauzi (record store) and all of the other places that were selling underground at that time?
Numskull: It depends on what area you are talking about because when we came out I would think that it is just like it is now. All the contracts are the same. The East Coast didn’t get different contracts than the West Coast did. It was the same music industry. The same people owned all of the music so …
JR Valrey: Weren’t y’all able to make more money when y’all were doing independent music?
Numskull: It depends on what era you were in, what year you came out. Lately these cats been making a whole lot of dough, way more money than what we made. That’s what they are doing now. Niggaz is opening businesses with their brand.
We did not do that back then, but now they do so it is a lot more money. When it comes to contracts, they are all fucked up, from then to now, because you don’t own your shit. Your masters are theirs. It’s a lot of artists out here, including myself, are trying to change that. But it is still bad right now.
JR Valrey: Did the independent game make money?
Numskull: If you could do it, yeah. If you could get in the independent game and do it right, there is money for you, definitely.
JR Valrey: Do you still think that there is money in rap?
Numskull: I don’t think that it is. Let me put it like this, since AI came out, there isn’t a lot of money in a lot of shit no more.
JR Valrey: We are on Third and Palou right now, how is AI going affect this neighborhood in two years?
Numskull: First of all, I think that all music is gonna get watered-down. Shit ChatGPT can right now write a rap for you. They have AI apps that could write raps for you. You don’t have to use exactly what it wrote but bits of ideas. You can say I want to rap about this and then it will write you something out.
You can take that and you are a rapper now so the shit is about to be watered down; you don’t know who is telling the truth. We ain’t been knowing who been telling the truth for a while (smiling). You don’t even know who are real artists nowadays.
JR Valrey: Is the game over?
Numskull: Music ain’t over because we are creative people so we are gonna always make music, but are we gonna make money at it? That’s the thing. Can we get it out to the masses, like we used to? Because the shit is flooded right now with AI shit, you see Universal and everybody is trying to sue muthaphuckaz that’s putting out this AI music with the artist name on it, but it’s not them; it’s AI. This shit is crazy. It’s about to be real bad.
JR Valrey: So how do you see technology? Do you see technology as a good thing or a bad thing? Is it a tool? How do you see it?
Numskull: It depends on who’s using it. If you got some good shit in the hands of a bad muthaphucka, it could be used for bad. And we are not creating … we prolly did (smiling) because a lot of shit comes from Black people. Believe that.
JR Valrey: What made y’all take the position that y’all was from the hood, but y’all was more like the Cheech and Chong of rap. Y’all was about getting loaded and y’all had street tales. Y’all was accepted by the hood. We love y’all. What made y’all go that route and not do what everybody else was doing?
Numskull: It was just us. We just did what we knew; that was it. That was just us; we didn’t try to be nothing else. We just rapped; that’s all we did. It just so happened that we was funny street niggaz, that’s all. We couldn’t help but be that.
JR Valrey: How did the world take to it? I guess it’s self-evident with “I got 5 on it.”
Numskull: You ain’t never heard niggaz like that. You never heard the type of skits we were doing. You didn’t hear that in music.
JR Valrey: I remember in ‘95 at Summer Jam when y’all brought out the super blunt and y’all really had smoke coming out of it.
Numskull: That was a real blunt. Dj Fuze rolled that muthaphucka.
JR Valrey: That was real? How big was it?
Numskull: About that big (a foot) smiling …
JR Valrey: What was the Luniz’ creative process like? Did you write your raps at home? Did you write them together?
Numskull: We fought the whole time and the music just came out … (snapping his fingers repeatedly). That’s just what we did. Just arguing.
JR Valrey: What would y’all be arguing about?
Numskull: Whatever. We would be disagreeing on everything. But that’s how we were as brothers. It wasn’t a love-hate because we didn’t hate each other. It was “I love my nigga, but I don’t like what he is saying.” That’s just what it was between us. You fuck with one, you are gonna fuck with the other. That’s how it was back then.
JR Valrey: What did it feel like to be that young with a hit and go around the world? I mean you could tour off of that one song for the rest of your life. How did or does that feel?
Numskull: If there is somebody or something that put us here … thank you. That’s all I have to say.
JR Valrey: Now they call you Drank-alot in the Luniz. How much drank are we talking about when we call you that?
Numskull: Back then? I would drink like 11, 12, 13 40s a day. I woke up with one.
JR Valrey: And you are still functioning? And you could walk (laughing)? And you were doing this around the world with The Luniz?
Numskull: Every day. If they didn’t have the 40s that I needed out there, I had them shipped. And I was serious about it. I called Mickey’s trying to get a sponsorship deal. They said (in a white voice,) “We don’t sponsor rap” (laughing). I did not stop drinking them though. I’m done though, I don’t fuck with alcohol no more.
JR Valrey: Do you smoke weed? Or are you just sober? What made you go sober?
Numskull: Something just told me to stop. I mean, it wasn’t no health problems or nothing like that. It was just time.
You know what it was – when my wife said that she wanted to do a fast, and I was like “Fuck it, let’s do it.” And for two weeks I didn’t eat no carbs, no cheese, no sugar, nothing … I was eating nuts and fruits and shit like that. And that natural shit was good.
I did that shit for two weeks and after the two weeks I tried to drink a 40 (ounce) and I couldn’t. It didn’t taste good to me, I didn’t want it. Ever since then, I haven’t been eating no meat, drinking no alcohol and it’s probably the best thing for me. I’m sure.
JR Valrey: How do people keep up with Num’s world?
Numskull: I don’t fuck with social media. I have Instagram and Facebook, but I don’t really fuck with it. I’m not a social dude. I don’t tell people my business. I will use it if I need it.
JR Valrey: Last but not least, but I just have to ask you in the interview, will we ever see another Luniz album between Numskull and Yukmouth?
Numskull: Hopefully, but some shit has to happen first though. Put it like this, if it doesn’t happen, it’s not because of me.
JR Valrey, journalist, author, filmmaker and founder of Black New World Media, is also the editor in chief of the San Francisco Bay View newspaper. He teaches the Community Journalism class twice a week at the San Francisco Bay View newspaper office. He can be reached at jr@sfbayview.com.
