Support SF BayView
Donate or Subscribe to SF Bay View
Follow Us Twitter Facebook

Racism, white privilege in the 99%: If not now, when do we address it?

November 15, 2011

by Minister of Information JR

Minister of Information JR’s article, “My thoughts on Occupy Oakland after the murder and one-month anniversary,” drew a provocative response from his longtime comrade Boots Riley of The Coup (see his comments below); here, JR continues the conversation:

Boots Riley speaks at the Oakland Public Library Oct. 25.
I appreciate the debate, and I respect your opinion although I do not agree. There are many factors at play that we have to acknowledge in this conversation; one is that you are a dope influential artist with a level of popularity that I would say insulates you from all of what is happening on the ground floor of Occupy. Wherever you move, crowds move. You are seen as one of the top voices in Occupy – keep it real – which means that you may not know what’s happening at the grassroots, where we all are not famous like you.

Yes, there are Black and Brown folks that are a part of Occupy. The question is whether they have decision-making power, and if you say they do, do they feel like they do? Does marginalization speak for something? I have been out there many days studying this phenomenon and how people are relating to it. I talked with people Black and white at all levels, not just here but in San Francisco too, to come up with what I think about this situation.

I agree that the mass media has an agenda that is against a people’s movement, so there is no need to debate that point. Do you not agree that the vast majority of Occupiers are white 20-30 year old hippie or anarchist types? Would you disagree that that is who runs the General Assembly? If you remember, on the day that you spoke at the library, it was a well known anarchist who gave you the mic, so that analysis of what is going on is real and cannot be ignored.

Where are all of the Black organizers of Oakland? Many of the people I have seen who are Black are artists basking in a few minutes of fame rather than trying to organize for a better tomorrow, and I’m definitely not insinuating that describes you because I do know some of your political organizing history. Keep it real, and think about it.

The other groups of Black people are new to fighting for social and political issues, which is great. Where is the Occupy Movement leading them? Is this about reforming capitalism and saying we want a few more crumbs or is this against capitalism? It seems to take on both orientations.

Is this against slavery, or is it that some people are just mad because they never get to hold the whip? I would say that the latter is true. Hang out with the Black crew that hang a stone’s throw away from where dude got murdered. Ask them how they feel. Sit there and watch some of the commotion that goes on and is unresolved because Occupy asserts white dominance but doesn’t want to deal with racism in the working class.

Is this against slavery, or is it that some people are just mad because they never get to hold the whip?

The community galvanized against the Riders, the police and city government in the Oscar Grant case, and around Lovelle Mixon, to name a few campaigns that I’ve seen within the last seven or eight years, so I don’t know why you feel like that. You keep mentioning the Black Panthers, but what led to their break with the Peace and Freedom Party? Let’s also talk about what Paul Robeson, Langston Hughes and Richard Wright – all in the Communist Party or associated with it – had to say about being led by a force outside of our community toward the end of their lives.

Do you not see racism? Can you see it in this movement? Can you see it in the abstract goals, where there are real situations going on on a daily basis? Where is the support for justice for Raheim Brown in Oakland and Kenneth Harding in San Francisco?

Where is the support for justice for Raheim Brown in Oakland and Kenneth Harding in San Francisco?

In a city where we are reportedly 30 percent of the population, we make up none of the true leadership in Occupy, except for you. If the city “caved in,” shouldn’t we, the people, have asked for more than the chance to “shoot a warning shot” at the port? Most people that I talked to were down to take the port. Why was it a warning shot? I think controlling the port could have brought Oakland to its knees, but we settle for a warning shot? There’s no warning when they shoot. Luckily it was white kids. If the port occupiers were Black, all kinds of shit would’ve already happened.

Boots leads the march from Oscar Grant Plaza at City Hall to shut down the Port of Oakland on the day Occupy Oakland declared a General Strike, Nov. 2. – Photo: Isaac Steiner
The white activists shot the police with paint guns, in the neck, and were not murdered on the spot like Black people would have been at a Black rally. I was there to witness that with my own eyes. Will you deny that white privilege has anything to do with how the police are treating this movement?

Nowhere in your whole response do you discuss racism in the working class. I mentioned that in my article. Where is your analysis on this? I know that that is not convenient to talk about right now. I’m adding to the discussion like everybody else. It is sad that you see it as “pot-shots” when I tell the world what’s on our Black minds. I’m trying to help the movement by hopefully critiquing it and altering it to something we too can believe in.

I don’t know how informed you are about Black politics in Oakland, but the campaign to keep the five schools open is a Black- and Brown-led campaign. Can we get some of you and your Occupy crew to support that? Or can we fight against gentrification in East and West Oakland, where Black and Brown families are getting their homes taken, like my grandmother in East Oakland, instead of camping outside of City Hall? Let’s address some of the Occupiers being gentrifiers? Can we politically educate on that?

The campaign to keep the five schools open is a Black- and Brown-led campaign. Can we get Occupy to support that?

What is this mass gathering of people dominated by white folks fighting for? That is what me and some many others are trying to grapple with at the bottom of the 99 percent. Boots, we are eagerly awaiting your response.

The People’s Minister of Information JR is associate editor of the Bay View, author of “Block Reportin’” and filmmaker of “Operation Small Axe,” both available, along with many more interviews, at www.blockreportradio.com. He also hosts two weekly shows on KPFA 94.1 FM and kpfa.org: The Morning Mix every Wednesday, 8-9 a.m., and The Block Report every Friday night-Saturday morning, midnight-2 a.m. He can be reached at blockreportradio@gmail.com.

Boots Riley’s comments on ‘My thoughts on Occupy Oakland after the murder and one-month anniversary’ by Minister of Information JR

I wholeheartedly disagree with much of what you say here. First there are a lot of Black and Brown folks involved that the media doesn’t show. I could give you a gang of stories where I’m asking the media why they’re taking pictures of the folks who are dressed in “anarchist” or “hippie” attire, rather than the groups of Black and Brown folks who – in those situations – were a few feet away debating something.

More often than not, the General Assemblies are facilitated by Black folks. And there are always Black folks up on the stage. Somehow, this doesn’t make it into media images. All day at the General Strike, Black and Brown folks were up on stage – high school students, workers, organizers. No media pictures. There is a concerted effort by the media to make this seem like it’s organized by White outsiders.

Second, I’ve been involved with, at various levels, organizations that identify as Black and revolutionary or radical in the past 20 years in Oakland. Occupy Oakland actually has more Black folks involved and definitely more that are actually FROM the hood. Ron Muhammed organized a West Oakland assembly of Occupy Oakland who had an event at Defremery Park – with folks who have been involved at Occupy Oakland.

The march reaches the port with Boots in the lead. He has emerged as the most recognizable face of Occupy Oakland.
Black radicals in Oakland for the past few decades, save for a couple campaigns, have not been able to galvanize the Black population of Oakland. JR, you know this is the truth. Why are you criticizing Occupy Oakland for not doing what you, I or any other Black radical organization has not done in the past 30 years? And Occupy Oakland has only been around for a month.

We also had much of the rank-and-file of the ILWU behind us – which is largely Black. Even the Black Panther Party was criticized for supposedly having mainly White folks at their rallies. This is actually a movement with the potential to galvanize Black and Brown folks in Oakland.

The mayor didn’t LET us do anything. WE reached out to the rank and file of the SEIU, who pressured the SEIU brass, who put out a statement “encouraging” workers to take the day off. They then informed the city that their people will be taking the day off to join the General Strike and to not penalize anyone. The city caved and said they wouldn’t penalize anyone. The police stood back because we had every media outlet in the world following the story. Al Jazeera, BBC, every major network, every newspaper.

Luckily for us, the person that got shot in the head the week before wasn’t Black; it was somebody that the media wouldn’t write off to their White viewers: a young, White, Iraq veteran. So the pressure to look good was on. We had 30-something thousand to 50,000 people marching to shut down the port and we made it clear that a police line was not going to stop us – we would push through. The best thing for them to do was stand down. They were in a lose-lose situation, because if they fought us at that time, the movement would’ve grown much more.

We sent a warning shot that said that we have the power to hurt their pocketbook to the tune of millions. It also served to prove it to the community that it could be done. This is something that organizers all over the U.S. doubted could be done. We are showing that the fight against capitalism is a class war.

There are problems with Occupy Oakland; it is an unorganized movement that is still defining itself. It’s not a party. It’s not even clearly an organization.

Don’t reiterate the same arguments that have been thrown at every movement from the civil rights movement ‘til now. If you have critiques, bring together a group of folks that could change the political landscape in Oakland. Don’t just throw pot-shots to try to tear it down. It’s a worldwide movement – 1,300 cities. It’s new. Give it time and give it help.

This video was broadcast Sept. 28, 2011.

 

54 thoughts on “Racism, white privilege in the 99%: If not now, when do we address it?

  1. C. T. Weber

    Black Panther Party did not leave Peace and Freedom Party. Black Panther Party was one of the leading forces in Peace and Freedom Party. Various left organizations struggled for control of Peace and Freedom Party until the election and then everyone left because they thought the party was dead. That includes Black Panthers. When it sprang back to life, most of the old guard did not notice and stayed away. Then Peace and Freedom Party made the decision to go socialist. That is feminist-socialist. They lost ballot status, and in 2003, they became the first political party in the history of California to be removed from the election ballot and requalified. Eventually, they developed a non-sectarian, multi-tendency party. Finally, they are becoming a more unified and more meaningful organization.

    Reply
  2. PeterHap

    Nobody talks about "Chinese privilege" in China. Nobody talks about "Haitian privilege" in Haiti. Nobody talks about "Japanese privilege" in Japan. Nobody talks about "Somalian privilege" in Somalia. Antiracists talk about "white privilege" in white nations, ONLY white nations. They say they are antiracist. What they are is antiwhite. Antiracist is a code word for antiwhite.

    Reply
      1. GeoffHolden

        You anti-whites have got nothing.You stand accused of pushing white genocide.Anti-racist is a codeword for anti-white.

        Reply
    1. phil

      Nobody talks about "Chinese privilege", "Haitian privilege", "Japanese privilege" and "Somalian privilege" because they don't have privilege. Only the rich elites have any privilege at all and those so-called "elites" in those countries are nothing compare to the ones in the US and Europe. In China, the government ban Google from the mass public, so you can't even have the "privilege" to freedom of information, and they can not have more than one baby per family. In Haiti, there are millions of people starving to death, and the same goes for Somalia. In addition, warlord pirates run the show over there! In terms of "Japanese privilege", there is also an occupy movement in Japan protesting against the 1% who have everything, and the rest who just want to get by in this horrible economy. (And guess who created the economic melt down? it surely wasn't minorities.) They were rich white elites that choose to gamble on the lives of poor people of EVERY color. That is privilege for you.

      On the topic of anti-racist as code word of "anti-white", it's bogus. No one is hating on whites, people (white people as well) just realized that whites have had it great for a long time, and instead of ignoring the past, it's important to address it now. Whites have had a great head start on the marathon and minorities just want to be on the same playing field that is all. So instead of defending rich elites ( because they don't give a shit about you), you should join hands with people of color and maybe all our voices will finally be heard.

      Reply
  3. Ann_Garrison

    On Sunday I called Ayanda Kota of the Grahamstown, South Africa Unemployed People's Movement and produced barely more than a minute of KPFA News on Occupy South Africa, the only Occupy Movement on the Africa map yet. I put it on my website and Facebook page, http://www.anngarrison.com/audio/south-africa-on-…. Two days later someone from Voice of the Cape, a South African community radio station, called to ask me about Occupy Oakland. Actually the host was a Somalian who has taken refuge in South Africa, and Voice of the Cape is an Islamic radio station.

    I asked Ayanda Kota if he'd like to write something explaining one of the signs at Occupy South Africa: "94 [the year Mandela was elected] Changed Fokol."

    When Wuyi Jacobs, a Nigerian American, said he was going to do a segment about South Africa this Saturday on WBAI, I suggested he talk to Ayanda Kota.

    My point? Occupy is giving people reasons to connect, all sorts of people. That's all.

    There are reasons why Oscar Grant, Troy Davis, and Scott Olson became symbols as universal as they have and Kenneth Harding and Raheem Brown have not. I'm certainly not saying that there's anything acceptable about their police executions or the response. I'm just saying something about symbols. There are some obvious reasons why Oscar Grant and Troy Davis became international symbols of injustice, and why Scott Olson did as well.

    On the night of Troy Davis's execution, as we saw people all over the world holding their breath and praying for him, I was doing the same but also asking myself why that much of the world wasn't doing the same for an African political prisoner, Victoire Ingabire, who will quite likely be facing a 30 years to life sentence in Rwanda for disagreeing with Rwandan President Paul Kagame, and I certainly knew race wasn't the reason. It often but not always is, and I don't think Scott Olson's near death is the reason he became such a symbol. He would have become just as symbolic, maybe even more so, had he been Black.

    Reply
  4. Zrinyi

    Here's some rich non-White countries by world standards:
    Does Singapore require diversity?
    Does Malaysia require diversity?
    Does Israel require diversity?
    Does the UAE require diversity?
    How about China? Does China require diversity until their people are a minority? China is on the way to becoming wealthy, so we should start early on that, right?
    You see we are on to you anti-Whites. We know what the end goal is. Dress it up how you like, what you want is White Genocide.

    Reply
  5. Zrinyi

    Africa has 2/3 of the World’s natural resources and some of the World’s most fertile farmland.
    Africans have 56 countries all to themselves, yet demand to live in White countries, with White people, and the right to rule over Whites as well.
    Africa is the product of Africans, and Mexico is the Product of Mexicans.
    White countries are making the transition to a non-White country; all Brown countries are poor, unless they are standing on oil.

    Reply
  6. GeoffHolden

    If you push the genocide of white children you have no moral authority to criticise other people`s unethical behaviour
    Genocide is genocide,whether accomplished by bullets and mustard gas,or mass immigration and social engineering.

    The real dissidents of this rotten regime are saying:

    Anti-racist is a code word for anti-white.

    Reply
  7. CalIssa

    Stop funding death squads, despots and thieving and maybe your hollow pretext of allowing the peoples countries you raped to immigrate wouldn't be needed to maintain a false image of morality. This false morality only continues to act as a smiley face to genocide and looting by your beloved white countries. If you want immigration to stop, get your criminal government out of other peoples business they wouldn't even bother coming here to be a second class citizen and blood for this bloated parasite economy. Simply put blame your terrorist alphabet organizations and your government for having their hands in places they don't belong. If being against the predatory imperialist nature of Europe in other places in the world is promoting white genocide that's something you've accomplished with your own actions. If being against foreign bombs and drugs flooding into your country is anti-white then i guess a whole lot of the world is going to be anti-white if you can't reign in your homegrown terrorist.

    Reply
  8. Where was JR!???

    JR: " Is this about reforming capitalism and saying we want a few more crumbs or is this against capitalism?"

    PERHAPS JR MISSED THAT HUUUGE BLACK SIGN STRUNG ACROSS 14TH STREET AT BROADWAY ON THE DAY OF THE OAKLAND GENERAL STRIKE AND PORT OF OAKLAND SHUTDOWN THAT SAID:

    ___________________________ "DEATH TO CAPITALISM!!" _________________________ __

    .

    JR continuing to take pot-shots from the outside and complaining – instead of going down to Occupy Oakland and trying to actually DO SOMETHING – has, and kind of 'slow-motion' painful for others hearing him on the radio, sadly, really been so conspicuously, and repeatedly, discrediting himself.

    JR has engaged in the worst kind of destructive criticism – really a total condemnation – of Occupy Oakland. But, has JR ever gone down there to TALK to the community of black/color people there in any kind of group or forum? Nnno… So, where was JR?

    (continued…)

    Reply
  9. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Maybe other blacks who have never been over to Occupy Oakland believe JR and will now also slam Occupy Oakland and never go there – and maybe JR is just trying to thus do – ahem – 'SOMEONE'S work' – just a couple days – a the most then critical organizing time – before the biggest mass action in Oakland's entire history – but JR has lost a LOT of credibility – in much of the activist black community too – on his now regular anti-Occupy Oakland shtick.

    As one brotha said about JR, "JR's thinking has often been suspect."

    And, sometimes, JR's actions are firmly MORE THAN SUSPECT by black Oakland grassroots poet and writer, Marvin X (often found on the streets of downtown Oakland at or near City Center).

    And now JR's words and actions make ME suspect.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  10. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Is this to say that every white person in this broad-based movement, whether from the Anarchists or the Black Bloc or any of Oakland's neighborhoods or the suburbs, has attained anywhere near perfect, or even sufficient, cross-racial/multicultural consciousness?: absolutely not! A few "well-meaning" but subconciously arrogant white liberals and leftists there, like you find everywhere in any multicultural group, place or setting (including a white KPFA programmer that JR has worked under), could learn a little "Unlearning subconscious white leftist elitism, know-it-all-ism, privilege, self-hero-worship, and racism workshop" – and how to talk with some white cross-racial consciousness and sensitivity to or about ordinary black people who are not the more prominent ones at Occupy Oakland or anywhere else. This so, no more than JR has attained perfect, or even sufficient, multicultural, cross-gender or cross sexual orientation consciousness. That's why there are, for example, a general people of color, or specifically different people of color, women's, and queer groups/tents, in addition to other so-called identity and affinity groups.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  11. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    JR PROMINENTLY SAID ON HIS RADIO SHOW THAT A BLACK FRIEND OF DAVEY D'S WAS ATTACKED AND BEATEN UP AT OCCUPY OAKLAND:

    JR'S CLAIM WAS _ABSOLUTELY FALSE_!!

    I GUESS THAT JR NEVER ASKED DAVEY D!

    I PHONED UP DAVEY D AND ASKED HIM.

    AND ANYONE CAN ASK DAVEY D.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  12. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    JR called Occupy Oakland, "a white political gentrification movement."

    JR didn't even know, until a woman of color told him on his show on KPFA, that there was even a people of color tent at Occupy Oakland, and there is a people of color working group there too. So, where was JR?

    JR said that Occupy Oakland didn't address black issues, but I guess he didn't know about the big ANTI-POLICE BRUTALITY FORUM on Saturday evening/night – instead of a General Assembly meeting – where almost everyone who spoke, faciliated or was otherwise on the microphone was black! – or in the case of maybe two white people who spoke, had a black son/nephew/relative who was a victim of lethal police brutality. So, where was JR?

    Maybe JR didn't know about the issues of foreclosures, disproportionate affecting black and brown communities, that have been discussed at Occupy Oakland. So, where was JR?

    Maybe JR didn't know about the prison-industrial complex industry being given a prominent forum at Occupy Oakland. So, where was JR?

    (continued…)

    Reply
  13. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Maybe JR missed that Occupy Oakland renamed and called it's Oakland city hall site OSCAR GRANT PLAZA!

    Maybe JR thinks that Angela Davis, who spoke at Occupy Oakland, is a sell-out Uncle Tom.

    Maybe JR thinks that Davey D, who's been doing much of the KPFA and DAVEYD.COM coverage, as well as Anita Johnson of KPFA, of Occupy Oakland are sell-out Uncle Toms.

    Maybe JR thinks that David Hilliard, who spoke at Occupy Oakland, is a sell-out Uncle Tom.

    Maybe JR thinks that Boots Riley, who virtually led the downtown march on the day of the Oakland General Strike, and who's more or less 'led', so to speak, the rallies at the Oakland Public Library is a sell-out Uncle Tom.

    Maybe JR thinks that the ILWU's Clarence Thomas, who was a key participant in the discussion about the historic Novemeber 2 Oakland General Strike and the Port of Oakland shutdown, and who spoke at an Occupy Oakland forum, is a sell-out Uncle Tom.

    Maybe JR thinks that Adam and Shake, to brotha's who've virtually been the TV media voice of Occupy Oakland, are both sell-outs and Uncle Toms.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  14. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Maybe JR thinks that all the other black folks, who've been Occupy Oakland organizers, General Assembly facilitators, speakers and campers at Occupy Oakland, are all sell-outs and Uncle Toms.

    JR claims that there aren't enough black people camping out at Occupy Oakland. But maybe more black people, especially black people from the 'hood or ghetto, feel like, as a people, too many of us already live in conditions that are only a couple of levels above tents, or that once some of us as a people and individuals finally got decent places to live, and are generally just lucky enough to have something better than a tent to sleep under, then WE DON'T WANT TO camp out, out in the nighttime cold, on the cold ground, and sometimes in the rain. This, with the police constantly following your every move, threatening to raid, beat up, and arrest — some of us already get enough of that where we already live!

    (continued…)

    Reply
    1. Ann_Garrison

      That's exactly what a Black girl friend and fellow KPFA programmer said to me: that her parents worked hard so she wouldn't have to live like the campers at Occupy Oakland. No way was she campin' out down there. And frankly, I never considered it either. I couldn't get organized to do it or tolerate the hardship so long as I have a choice. But we've both been to Occupy Oakland. I got tear gassed on Tuesday, October 25th, and had to think about whether or not to get arrested. I can't speak for her, but I can say that I'm glad there were others willing to put up with the hardship of camping, even though they have indoor shelter, to claim public space in a way that has attracted this much attention.

      The camping phase of the Occupy Movement may be ending. For God's sake, it's WINTER, so maybe the next phase of the movement should be about reclaiming foreclosed homes and/or occupying empty buildings for the homeless.

      Reply
  15. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Maybe camping out in an urban setting is for people who always know that they otherwise HAVE a decent place to go back to, if even just sometime during the day – or for black/other street people, male and female, who have no other home, and Occupy Oakland at least gives them a tent, a fairly safe place to sleep, a place to go to the 'bathroom' inside — and A PLACE WHERE THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE IN BY 7PM (like a little child) AND OUT BY 6AM (like an unwanted vagrant), WHAT KIND OF HOURS IS THAT FOR AN ADULT — and a place to get good free food, as well as a place to interact with a sympathetic community of people!

    JR has complained more about Occupy Oakland than EVER about the WHITE CORPORATE FORCES and their Oakland city council functionaries that don't want Occupy Oakland there and that have shut it's site down again – along with all the other Occupy's across the nation, including its inspirational center beginning in New York City!

    Maybe JR THINK'S THAT HE'S "THE ONLY TRUE BROTHA AK REVOLUTIONARY IN THE BAY AREA THAT'S HOLDIN' IT DOWN AND KEEPIN IT REAL."

    Reply
  16. Joseph From Berkeley

    It's really sad to see JR do this, because, although I might not always agree with him, and sometimes I strongly disagree with some of his rhetorical street tactics, he's otherwise done a lot of good reportage in the Bay Area.

    But, this shows how we always need to actually discourse with a community of others – especially thinkers and participants – in a movement – or perhaps even at least try to participate in it ourselves – before we just look at something superficially and decide for ourselves to just write it off with potshots on whatever outside prejudices are.

    (Such lack of discourse with a community, like when Michael Moore said, even in Moore's book appropriately entitled, "Stupid White Men", that Mumia Abu Jamal "was probably guilty, but he deserves a fair trial". so how, I'd ask, do you know if someone is guilty if even you aknowledge that he/she hasn't gotten a fair trial? Dennis Kuchinich said even worse!: he signed onto a Republican Congressional resolution calling Mumia "a cop killer" and condeming a city in France, St. Deny/Denis [sp?], for officially supporting Mumia and naming a street after Mumia).

    Reply
  17. Joseph From Berkeley

    TO MAKE IT CLEAR — A CLARIFICATION!:

    JR PROMINENTLY SAID ON HIS RADIO SHOW THAT A BLACK FRIEND OF DAVEY D'S WAS ATTACKED AND BEATEN UP– [ BY A GROUP OF WHITE GUYS] — AT OCCUPY OAKLAND:

    JR'S CLAIM WAS _ABSOLUTELY FALSE_!!

    Reply
  18. Kiilu Nyasha

    "The blanket indictment of the white race [There's only one race, the human race ascertained by the Human Genome Project of 2000 decades after George made this statement, but we can still get the point.] has done nothing but perplex us, inhibit us. The theory that all whites are the immediate enemy and all Blacks our brothers (making them loyal) is silly and indicative of a lazy mind (to be generous, since it could be a fascist plot)." George L. Jackson
    I would also remind JR that one of the reasons there are not more Black and Brown folks in the mix lies in the simple fact that the very ones who would be with Occupy Oakland, etc., are under very restrictive parole conditions, not to mention their massive incarceration. Moreover, please, let he or she who is without racism/prejudice cast the first stone. The solution to institutionalized racism is international solidarity, not more of the same. You don't fight fire with more fire, but with water. This is the most exciting, nonracist movement I've seen in all the 43 years I've been in the struggle. The youth generally are not buying into the racist attitudes of their parents/grandparents; they're organizing an organically international/global movement that just might save this planet. Venceremos!! Power to the people — all people!

    Reply
  19. misinformation fm JR

    JR: " the Occupy Movement worldwide was shaken by the cold-blooded murder of a participant less than an hour before festivities were scheduled to start. And the Occupy Movement and the news tried to cover up the fact that the victim, who was Black, was an active participant."

    Kind of strange to say, since Occupy Oakland participants held a vigil and, subsequently, a memorial (with even a candle-lit and sympathy cards shrine) for the guy, who went by the name Alex.

    It was the white corporate media and Mayor Quan who tried to despicably exploit Alex's, another young black male's, tragic and highly premature death by harping on the fact, like it was negative, that Alex (perhaps among the very least part of the 99%) was an Occupy Oakland encamper and sought community and perhaps ultimately sanctuary there, and yet the media and Mayor blamed Occupy Oakland itself for his death — like there was never any gun crimes, even occasional shoot-outs, in downtown Oakland long before Occupy Oakland.

    [more below...]

    Reply
  20. misinformation fm JR

    [more from above...]

    Tell me how JR is NOT doing the work of the corporate media, the white corporate political and business interests, the police department, the mayor, the conservative city council members?

    What stereotypes (empty symbolism, crime, filth, chaotic, useless, disruptive, cesspools of the mentally afflicted and drug addicts) against Occupy Oakland and the entire Occupy movement is JR perpetrating that all those white, or black, or brown, or Asian conservative interestes AREN'T?

    How is JR — from within and on a supposedly progressive/leftist Bay Area-wide radio station — the perfect media cover — NOT engaging in COINTELPRO-style discrediting that COINTELPRO agents would NOT be doing themselves?

    [more below...]

    Reply
  21. misinformation fm JR

    [more from above...]

    David Hilliard once said that if someone is constantly or suddenly doing COINTELPRO-style disruptive work — including obviously trying to discredit the movement — especially at the most critical times — then you should just assume that they are, or somehow are, or at least _treat them_ like, COINTELPRO agents or operatives or puppets, and just _isolate_ that person, even if you don't necessarily directly accuse, or necessarily want to accuse, them, him-/herself, of being an agent.

    After all, we don't know what COINTELPRO might have on JR, or _when_ COINTELPRO or its fronts or functionaries might choose to use it and/or pressure someone, even someone supposedly on the left, especially at the most critical times, to do something _obviously intending to openly discredit and critically disrupt the movement_.

    How can JR ever be a partner and associate on, especially, Hard Knock Radio or Flashpoints after this!?

    [more below...]

    Reply
  22. misinformation fm JR

    [more from above...]

    JR has effectively allied himself with the _enemies_ of the entire Occupy movement, especially because he's not doing much, if any, talking against or or trying to discredit _them_ — just us!!

    JR certainly is reinforcing Marvin X's very deep and longtime suspcions of (well, actually downright accusations against) JR.

    Reply
  23. Joseph From Berkeley

    At a minimum JR is enaged in the kind of RULE OR RUIN mentality that BAMN was widely known for engaging in.

    See my commentary (available online), "BAMN'S BAD BEHAVIOR" (Asian Week), or "Not With a BAMN, But With a Moan" (The Daily Californian), by Joseph Anderson — also, "BAMN's BAD BEHAVIOR–Open Letter to Rose Aguilar, KALW, host, Your Call radio show" (at Indybay).

    This, when I then said, "BAMN gloms onto other people's much harder work and claims it as their own."

    Those in the know, even in the Justice for Oscar Grant Marches, still criticize BAMN — along with JR — as being advocates of indiscriminate property damage and defacement, the coincidental intimidation of innocent people and *workers*, and noncritical, indiscriminate "looting" (tactically aided by OPD) during the Oscar Grant marches.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  24. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Back then, BAMN tried to discredit every student movement that it couldn't commandeer — and was so disruptive (BAMN might as well have been doing the work of UCPD infiltrators) that every student organization on campus would put at the bottom of its flyers: "NOT BAMN AFFILIATED!"

    BAMN had acquired a similar reputation on the Oakland teachers's union and the OUSD.

    And yet, how many black people are in BAMN (fronting Malcolm X's quote, but a front for some highly sectarian, originally, if not still, white-led, leftist group, practically a *cult*, the so-called National Revolutionary Worker's League?) or BAMN's leadership.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  25. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    And now I see — once again the same old BAMN tactic of claiming other people's organizing victories — that BAMN's ostensible head Yvette Falarca — not even a UC Berkeley student(!!) — somehow ensconced herself in an interview the November 16th's PBS Newshour by reporter Spencer Michels (who obviously didn't know any better, but why he would interview someone, let alone *only* that person, who is not even a UC Berkeley student for a student-organized walkout, I don't know) — was actually claiming to be THE ORGANIZER and a leader of the Occupy Cal student walkout, general strike, afternoon rally, march, and nightime speeches — with BAMN's banner right at the front of the student march.

    Reply
  26. Dawg G

    Relax about it all, this is too, too, too much. Let the occupiers have their movement and time, their dream has been shattered, capitalism is eating itself and many who have privledged from the system are feeling the bite.Blacks folks have been the 99% , this is nothing new for us, others are realizing they too are Black. Let the movement build, don't kill or create distractions, let the 1% take a fall who best to address the 1% but white folks. When the 1% fall then we hold people accountable to do the right thing, but don't weaken the movement with emotional reactionary attacks. Stay focused and keep your focus on addressing the issues in your community.

    God Bless

    Reply
  27. Joseph From Berkeley

    Speaking of my prior comment: "Is this to say that every white person… whether from the Anarchists or the Black Bloc or any of Oakland's [or Berkeley's] neighborhoods or the suburbs, has attained anywhere near perfect, or even sufficient, cross-racial/multicultural consciousness?: absolutely not! A few "well-meaning" but subconciously arrogant white liberals and leftists there, like you find everywhere in any multicultural group, place or setting (including a white KPFA programmer that JR has worked under), could learn a little "Unlearning subconscious white leftist elitism, know-it-all-ism, privilege, self-hero-worship, and racism workshop…"

    …AND THIS IS AS MUCH TRUE OF KPFA'S PHILIP MALDARI — AND BEFORE, _LARRY BENSKY_ (see my Daily Californian commentary, available online, "FREEDOM TO SPEAK BENSKY'S LANGUAGE") — AS IT IS OF ANY OTHER SUCH WHITE PERSON.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  28. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    _*PHILIP MALDARI*_ WHO *BANNED* ME FROM EVER CALLING INTO HIS SHOW AGAIN, ONE SUNDAY MORNING, ON THE MOST *'NPR'* — PRO-AMERICAN IMPERIALIST APOLOGIST — SHOW I'VE EVER HEARD MALDARI DO!

    I guess he must have known that I would call in then — not that I listened to him much at all back when he was co-host of "The Morning Show" — and I only listened to his weekend call-in show to help provide a check on his reformist liberalism.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  29. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    MALDARI — AND AIMEE ALISON (kind of a radio disappointment for someone from the Green Party) — ONCE DID A "MORNING SHOW" WHERE CALLERS WERE SUPPOSED TO COMMENT *ONLY* ON HOW THEY FELT ABOUT WHETHER CANDIDATE OBAMA OR CANDIDATE MCCAIN WAS, THEN, AHEAD IN THE POLLS!

    – IN OTHER WORDS, COMMENT *ONLY* ABOUT *'THE HORSE RACE'* — NOT ABOUT THE POLITICAL SUBSTANCE OF OBAMA OR MCCAIN — THE VERY SAME THING THAT, ORDINARILY, PROGRESSIVES / LEFTISTS CRITICIZE THE CORPORATE MEDIA FOR DOING.

    Of course, I wasn't having none of that, and I called in to the show to civilly but firmly object about such superficiality — and to say that I didn't politically think much more about Obama, qualitywise, than I thought about Bush! — and other callers followed suit.

    This, when the KPFA morning shows, weekday and weekend, were, in effect, operationally, the Bay Area media center for the Democrat party and Barack Obama.

    NOW LOOK WHO WAS RIGHT ALL ALONG.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  30. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    YOU SEE, SOMETIMES A RADIO STATION — ESPECIALLY A "PROGRESSIVE / LEFTIST" RADIO STATION CAN GET TOO MUCH MONEY — TRYING TO BE LIKE THE BOYS & GIRLS AT NPR — AND KPFA HAS ACTUALLY DONE MUCH BETTER PROGRAMMING — LIKE BACK IN 'THE OLD DAYS' — WITH *LESS* MONEY.

    THAT'S WHY I DON'T GIVE KPFA ANY MONEY.

    KPFA HAD GOTTEN TO THE POINT WHERE THEY EXPECTED TO RAISE A MILLION DOLLARS *FOUR* TIMES A YEAR! — NOT INCLUDING THE *ARCHIVES* PLEDGE AND OTHER *SPECIAL* PLEDGE DRIVES!

    I WAS WONDERING, 'WHAT ARE THEY DOING WITH ALL THAT MONEY, FOUR TIMES A YEAR!?'

    Now they expect somewhat less, what with the economy and all…

    BESIDES, IN GENERAL, THE ONLY TIME KPFA *REALLY* WANTS TO HEAR FROM YOU IS AT FUNDRAISING *PLEDGE* TIME!

    This, unlike KALW's "Your Call" radio show, with host Rose Aguilar — who's had the best 1-hour radio interview call-in show in the Bay Area, since she's been the main host.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  31. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Now KPFA's "The Morning Mix" is a much better show series, in general (except with the question of JR recently) — in general much more interesting and incisive — than "The Morning Show" had gotten to be over the years.

    AND "HARD KNOCK RADIO" IS *MUCH* BETTER OFF *WITHOUT* _WEYLAND SOUTHON_ THAN IT WAS *WITH* HIM — AN OBVIOUSLY EGOTISTICAL *ASIAN* MALE — WHO THOUGHT HE WAS THE *BIGGEST* *BADDEST* REVOLUTIONARY — ESPECIALLY FOR *BLACK* FOLKS — WITH ONLY HIS INNER *INSECURITY* TO MATCH! :

    Those are the only kinds of people who have such *HUGE* EGOS: it's called psychological overcompensation.

    WEYLAND SOUTHON — AND OTHERWISE SETTING UP AND MAKING YET ANOTHER BLACK MAN TO APPEAR TO BE A *MENACE* AND A *PREDATOR* — WHO PARTICIPATED IN CERTAIN WHITE KPFA FEMALES' 'SEXUAL SET-UP' OF BLACK FMR GM ROY CAMPENELLA.

    Don't hear *nothin'* from Weyland anymore…!: I guess that "Hard Knock Radio" was all he could do — believing that *music* alone, strumming while 'Rome' burns, rather than actual activism, could save the world!

    (continued…)

    Reply
  32. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Now I listen to Hard Knock Radio almost all the time, every weekday, because I know that I will get to hear, especially, Davey D, but also Anita Johnson, conduct more *interesting* interview inquiries, comments and analyses.

    Anyway, Roy Campenella Jr., whom I never thought was particularly qualified to be GM of KPFA, which is probably why he was, back then, selected by the entrenched anti-democratic faction at KPFA, didn't last very long, and was about as spineless as Obama is. But, Sasha Lilley (the same white KPFA woman, along with another, who called the physically abusive Berkeley police on a Black woman programmer/producer at KPFA), Larry Bensky, Philip Maldari & Co, the entrenched anti-democratic white club — or 'White Citizens Council' at KPFA — didn't even want a GM with *half* a spine.

    THE ANTI-DEMOCRATIC ENTRENCHED 'WHITE CITIZENS COUNCIL' AT KPFA — INCLUDING PHILIP MALDARI — RAN CAMPENELLA OFF THE SAME AS THEY RAN THE PREVIOUS BLACK GM, GUS NEWPORT, OFF.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  33. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Although, you'll NEVER hear Amy Goodman — with Democracy Now *SUPPOSEDLY* "BREAKING THE SOUND BARRIER" — EVER discuss and have guests on that criticize ZIONISM, or THE ISRAEL LOBBY (instead of Noam Chomsky there denying the power of the Israel lobby and saying that it barely exists), or criticizing THE GOVT'S VERSION OF 9-11 (which Noam Chomsky also denies was anything but what Condoleeza Rice says it was: 'out of the blue!!', just like he supports "the lone gunman" killer of JFK ), or criticizing THE ESTABLISHMENT UNION BOSSES as an instrument of the Democrat (lesser-evilism) party establishment, who roll over whenever the Democrat party says to do so.

    This, like SEIU president Mary Kay Henry recently giving AN EARLY ENDORSEMENT, let alone any endorsement at all, already to Obama’s re-election bid — even as he's initiating opening up yet another U.S. military base, in Australia of all places — in *this* dreadful economy of all times, when those billions of dollars should be spent right here at home, maybe *rescuing* people's homes, instead of on yet more militarism and the military-industrial complex.

    Reply
  34. Joseph From Berkeley

    Okay, you undoubtedly get the idea now about what JR has been doing and saying, but (because I forgot to mention it in my first extended post), _JUST FOR THE RECORD_ !:

    JR, ON HIS RADIO SHOW, SAID — QUOTE: "THERE ARE *HUGE* RACIAL TENSIONS AT OCCUPY OAKLAND."

    THAT STATEMENT IS AS _FALSE_ AS THE *OTHER* _FACTUALLY *FALSE*_ STATEMENTS THAT JR HAS MADE ABOUT OCCUPY OAKLAND, AND EVEN ABOUT THE ENTIRE OCCUPY MOVEMENT!

    .

    Reply
  35. CalIssa

    It's a bit to easy to oversimplify the movement and say that everyone is progressive and moving in the same direction. Why? because it's not true and never has been true. People are unified by a common impact on their lives that is felt in different ways through this race/class hierarchy. Marching behind a banner (literally) doesn't mean everyone behind it agrees with the premise of the banner. For some people this is nothing more than a sideshow concert to be seen in. For others it represents the working aspirations of a better society whether that be through reform or revolution. Reform will solve the problems of a few and loosen the noose on others but won't fundamentally change the way America operates here or anywhere else in general. Calling this sit-in/march a revolution instead of the starting point of a revolution or simply a road to simple pacification legislation is disingenuous. This short-sighted triumphalism is brought into focus when you look at something like say Egypt. The media and blogs were tripping over themselves to proclaim that Egypt achieved a revolution and it was brought to them by Facebook and Twitter. When the reality is they're in the process of making one and simply (at this point) made the state shuffle its deck and give up one joker. The secret police are still active in Egypt and they are still protesting in Tahrir Square. I say that to say this, most of people who are in OWS and other similar movements who aren't agents, democratic or republican people herders are united in their malice toward the plutocracy that has always been at the core of this countries inception and politics. Anything that attacks the bank rollers of imperialism and their apparatus know as government is a positive movement depending on your non-allegiance to the plutocrats and their self serving off-spring.

    Reply
  36. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Of course all the official and institutional figures in the Kwang-ju massacre are gross undercounts — even the South Korean people were forbidden to talk about the massacre afterwards (you could go to prison!) — and it became official "nonhistory" — but if anyone goes to the cemetaries in and around Kwang-ju, people can count the grave-markers of people who died in that space of time.

    Yeah, this was Carter who started the proxy war against the Soviets in Afghanistan, the U.S. supporting the very people, all those Islamic fundamentalists, then that we have been fighting against now for a decade, or paying many off so that they won't kill American soldiers, and who the U.S. govt claims were responsible for 9-11.

    Carter imposed and led a U.S. boycott of American athletes participation the 1980 Moscow summer Olympics because the Soviets "invaded" Afghanistan. But no American president called for boycott of the summer Olympics in Mexico after the Mexican govt massacred hundreds of pro-democracy demonstrators, led by students, in Mexico city in 1968!

    (continued…)

    Reply
  37. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Everyone in the West knows about the Tienanmen Sq Massacre, but almost no one in the West, much beyond South Korean people and Western political science academics on South Korean, know about the Kwang-ju Massacre, one of the massacres by our *friendly* dictatorships. And most Americans don't know about the Mexico City massacre either, now or even back then, in a country right on our southern border. The mainstream American media essentially just didn't report either of them: an American media blackout.

    Yes, Carter who sheltered another U.S.-supported dictator, the Shah of Iran, from the Iranian people (this while the U.S. claims the right to demand hand-overs and summonings of, or go kill, or kidnap, or overthrow other heads of state). Yes, Carter who wore his homey cardigan sweaters and sat in a rocking chair in front of a fireplace in the White House.

    (continued…)

    Reply
  38. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    Yes, Carter who has since reinforced his PR 'rehabilitation' by going hammer in hand to build a statistical less than handful of "Habitat for Humanity" homes, while growing U.S. corporatist, neoliberal and foreign policies have rendered homeless millions of people in the U.S. and many tens of millions more in the Third World.

    When Obama leaves the presidency, he'll probably go do the same kind of thing: go pretend to build homes for the homeless, after he bailed out banks that still subsequently foreclosed on millions of people, while Michelle Obama goes around and promoting "good nutrition" programs, while and after Barack has appointed every pro-Monsanto, pro-GMO, federal so-called "regulator" in the U.S. FDA and Agriculture Department that Monsanto, or Archer Daniels Midland, and the rest of Agricorp, have paid him off in political campaign donations to appoint, and, after his presidency, the promise of $100,000 speaking fees and corporate board appointments.

    Yes, "… the bank rollers of imperialism and their apparatus know as government…' *AND* the corporate mainstream media.

    Reply
  39. Larry Pinkney

    The previous comments by Kiilu Nyasha re this matter are poignant and absolutely correct . Moreover, one does not effectively struggle against or eradicate systemic color and/or class privilege by applying more of the same–only in reverse. Rather, everyday Black, White, Brown, Red, and Yellow people must engage in strong and principled unity even as we address intrinsic systemic contradictions in the developing struggle to bring about genuine egalitarian change that serves people of all colors. This is an ongoing, long, hard, and protracted struggle full of many serious obstacles and challenges. It is not an easy or over-night affair. Berating the Occupy Movement serves to sow seeds of division while bolstering the interests of the privileged few, no matter what their color or gender might be. As Frantz Fanon noted, "Each generation must, out of relative obscurity, discover its mission, fulfill it, or betray it." All Power To The People! Onward!

    Reply
  40. Joseph From Berkeley

    JR was doing his Wed morning show on KPFA today — yet another show where he dumps on Occupy Oakland and the entire Occupy movement. Today he had a Black woman from NY who grossly stereotyped the entire Occupy movement the way white racists grossly stereotype Black and Brown people: "The Occupy movements are all a bunch of dirty, unsanitary, dangerous, unruly, spoiled, etc., [but in this case] white racist hippies."

    (continued…)

    Reply
  41. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    But, when I attempted to call in, JR apparently disconnected me. I called back again and his telephone screener to ask if JR disconnected me on purpose, and the telephone screener confirmed that JR was rejecting my call. I guess that JR only wants people who _agree_ with him — whom he probably had all lined up. He only opened the phone lines for about 5 minutes, so when he said he wanted "a discussion" on this, he obviously didn't mean that. What he meant by "a discussion" is — that claim was just PR cover for — "only people who *agree* with me" or, failing that, "no one who can question or disagree with me in an informed manner". A few other KPFA radio hosts behave like that too, even some who often do good work, like Dennis Bernstein (an often arrogant white guy, the one I alluded to in an above comment, who only respects high public status Black leftists [because Bernstein can't dismiss *them*] or those who worship him, whom JR has often worked under at Flashpoints).

    (continued…)

    Reply
  42. Joseph From Berkeley

    (continued…)

    You see, the right-wing often engages in censorship because they want to control all the nation's/world's resources — and, I've discovered living in the Bay Area, that too many highly sectarian so-called "leftists" engage in censorship because they want to control all thought.

    So much for "KPFA: Free Speech Radio".

    Reply
  43. Joseph From Berkeley

    Maybe JR should read THIS article IN THE SFBAYVIEW!:

    "Occupy Wall Street protesters occupy Harlem boiler room, get tenants heat and hot water"

    .

    Reply
  44. Joseph From Berkeley

    I've communicated with a number of leading Black voices in the San Francisco Bay Area and even beyond, including leading Black *and* Brown voices in Occupy Oakland itself.

    On this occasion, about Occupy Oakland, sad to say, JR Valrey has become

    __________________________MINISTER OF DISS-INFORMATION…__________________________

    .

    Reply
  45. Ackotee

    I was watching the Occupy movement on LiveStream when it first started. In their comments and chat box running down the side of the Video, The Mods were saying this is not about Racism. Well if not about Racism Blacks have no business being there. Only Blacks can work together to solve their own problems. Like brother Malcolm X said: "There can be no Black /White Unity Until there is some Black/Black Unity"

    Reply
  46. ella seneres

    And Malcolm X also said "The young generation of whites, blacks, browns- you're living at a time of Revolution, a time when there's got to be a change. People in power have misused it and now there has to be a change and a better world has to be built." Had been listening to the morning mix from the ben lomond mountains, but got disappointed with JR tone, rudeness and accusing racism to those who want to move back into the slot they were unjustly thrown out of. Now I happen to like the new version as the topics and people interviewed are more to my liking. But the host is not the best in conducting himself. I really like Davey D, his tone is inclusive of all. I am part Italian, Filipina , Jew and I can complain that there is hardly any representation of Filipinos on the station, but it seems trivial compared to the whole planet collapsing under the patriarchy. I did see someone mention COINTELPRO in regards to JR. Maybe, maybe not. I had dealing as a revolutionary in my younger years when I discovered a decade later when I was working at the DA office in Santa Cruz that gee, the person in question who had the same tone and who seemed to be a consistent compulsive crap stirrer was actually from Fort Ord, maybe military intelligence, my ass almost hit the floor when his x wife came in for child support and I said sure I will run him down with a warrant for failure to pay child support and when I saw he was from Fort Ord, suddenly it all made sense. What I thought was just crazy anti collectivism was really enemy infiltration. So I always wonder after that encounter and then others which turned out to be intelligence operatives, in Earth First! and at the Mae Brussell Center, makes me stop and look and listen. Those who trash to trash and like to throw around the hot topics to get division going, whoa to you as you will ruin your own reputation. Check yourself before you wreak yourself. This is a movement for all, all are welcome. If there are not enough blacks, asians, chicanos, lesbians, gays, transexuals, vegans, meat eaters, pot smokers, sober ones, gangbangers, democrats, even the wayward republicans, whomever in the occupy movement, then freaking join and stop complaining. The 99% includes lots of colors, classes and any other manner of addressing ourselves; take your space, make your voice known. But to piss on other peoples efforts is a cheap shot, and it may not pan out in the end, since capitalism, Amerikkka and fascism is so deeply entrenched, but why do you attack those who are trying to do something? As for eliminating the news department, that cuts out what is happening around the globe in our movements. As for the Morning Mix, like the topics, do like that there is representation, and I do like that it is prime time. Maybe Amy Goodman does not have to be on twice in the AM, once is enough, maybe the the two hours can be shared, the old guard can have the 7 am and the Morning Mix at 8 or whichever works out for the parties concerned. I do not think Jr should be eliminated, (unless someone does one of the old 60's security runs as they were called and found to be fake) he has many good things to share and insights, but he needs more time in any movement, more experience on the ground so to speak, and to try to be more inclusive otherwise he will ultimately paint himself in a corner to play with and by himself. Enjoy the solo act. But I can certainly sympathize with his disgust of the Revolution and how it is dead in its tracks, nevertheless we must never forget we had decades of COINTELPRO and all manner of destruction by the enemy in our movements; do we need to recount the sad criminal activity of the police state? Why trash those who still are crawling along as hard as it is. There is always room for the old communist crit, self crit, or criticism, self criticism; share your complaints and THEN SHARE HOW YOU CAN CHANGE AND MAKE IT BETTER. Take responsibility to make it better. Do not defecate on those who are trying to make a movement. It is not racist for those who were displaced so criminally to come back to their space again. But I do think there should be such shows as JR, as they are very interesting and they do attract youth. This is a radio station that should try to include more voices of youth. I love KPFA with all its foibles and issues. It is the best station around and it is a work in progress.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

BayView Classifieds - ads, opportunities, announcements
TOP STORES
RingCentral
Rebtel
Phone.com